Mog 404 axles

[elbekko]

If you start counting from the moment you pick up the slack, it shouldn't be too bad? And when you get one that's close, you can always open it up to be sure.

[Ed Poore]

That was my thinking. I'll see if I can spare the time to have a wee look this weekend when I'm supposed to be in the horrible place that is London.

[Daan]

Good to hear you made it home.

My 2p on the gearing:

Swapping the transfer box does not actually solve the problem, because they all have the same low range. 

One solution is to swap the transfer box for a 1.6 ratio and drive in high range. This would be a 100% raise in gearing, going from 3.3 to 1.6 ratio. Of course, it would make it useless on road.

Daan

[FridgeFreezer]

17 minutes ago, Daan said:

Swapping the transfer box does not actually solve the problem, because they all have the same low range. 

Is it low range or high range that's the issue here?

Personally I quite like having a very low low range, and the 1:1 transfer box gives me enough to cruise at motorway speeds - I'm not sure Stephen is intending on doing a lot of road miles in Sid?

[Anderzander]

What difference would an overdrive make? 

[Daan]

2 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

What difference would an overdrive make? 

I think the problem was getting momentum for hills etc., but we need Stephen to tells us what he thinks.

Sid surely got us all talking!

An overdrive would raise the gearing 28%, but leaving it permanently engaged is probably not the most sensible thing to do.

 

[landroversforever]

This thread just reminds me that I'd love to see what @Stellaghost and @bill van snorkle (wildfing creator from downunder) would create in a shed together. 

[FridgeFreezer]

Given the talk of a different engine choice I'd perhaps wait for that before faffing with the gearing as you might have a somewhat different rev range at your disposal.

[Escape]

As above, I'd only worry about high range if doing a lot of road miles. And then a suitable transfer box would help.

A low low range can have advantages for control, and you can always drive in 2nd or even 4th if appropriate or necessary, or even in high range to get enough momentum.

And yes @landroversforever, get those 2 together with all the tools needed! Should we start a forum fund raiser? 🙂

If I ever win the lottery, I'd make them an offer they could not refuse and then lock them in my secret lab. Moohaha!

[Ed Poore]

21 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Given the talk of a different engine choice I'd perhaps wait for that before faffing with the gearing as you might have a somewhat different rev range at your disposal.

This - not that I'm suggesting it in anyway (will be a bloody tight fit in a lightweight) but an engine like a 1UZ which has a factory red-line of 7k RPM would almost double his usable speed over a 200Tdi.

I'm slightly surprised about the comments for struggling for momentum on hills - I'm not sure I've ever wanted to or needed to attack a serious off-road hill in anything above low second or third. He's still got another two gears above that. Unless his final ratios have worked out >2x lower than a standard setup.

[landroversforever]

Mogs are 6.something in the diffs alone if I remember correctly... Assuming that's also without any portal reduction.

 

[Daan]

it is a 3.54 diff ratio (same as land rover diff) and 2.13 portal box ratio, total axle ratio is 7.56.

[Stellaghost]

Wow, Sid seems to have caused quite a stir..........lol

My first port of call would be getting him back, was supposed to be delivered yesterday at 14:50, not here yet and no phone call, recovery service providers will be a new topic for me shortly.

Secondly thank you all so much for the discussion that's going on to make him better offroad, so to add to that here are my thoughts bearing in mind I do not have the technical knowledge you guys have, although it is improving all the time by being a member of this forum and it's conversations

Tyres, I thinks softer tyres would make a bit difference, I don't know how old they are but they did not look like they were wrapping themselves around obstacles

Ground clearance, pretty happy with that .......lol

Gearing, pretty happy with the low range gearing, I could live with it. High range is hideous, when we were heading back to base I had to go into high box to keep up and the guys were not going fast, if I could achieve a 60mph road speed I would be delighted, I'm not planning long distance hauls by road

Engine, the 200 tdi was ok on the slow speed technical stuff, also this is a bog standard untuned unit, however as has been stated I cannot spin the wheels fast enough to clear the treads and a little bit more take off speed would be good

Other things to consider, my lockers were not functioning correctly, if they had worked 100% I would have had less issues I think ( oil warning and temp indication would also help )

As is Sid is useable and I had fantastic fun in him with you guys, my biggest priority will be to raise the funds for a decent trailer because without that there is no Sid going to events like Summer Sisters

So my list of priorities, these are subject to change with discussion from your good selves

Trailer

1:003 gearbox or the .9 unit if Ed is lucky enough to track it down ( I appreciate your efforts Ed but don't waste your valuable time, if it turns up great if not there are other options )

Tyres

Suspension up travel

Engine, ultimately I'm pretty sure I will go back to V8, should never have moved away from it, but in the mean time I will, with advice from this forum start trying to get the best out of the engine I have

As with everything stuff happens when funds are available so don't expect overnight fixes, would be nice if we could do stuff as we need but hey ho.

Looks like this thread is going to continue for a wee while yet........lol

Regards Stephen

 

[Stellaghost]

Just reading back through the thread part of the problem I think is my standard engine does not have enough oomph to pull Sid up hills in low 4th or 5th

Regards Stephen

[Stellaghost]

@FridgeFreezer and @Bowie69, very generous on the springs, if you could hold on until I can get a weight would be great or if you need them gone because they are taking up room let me know

Thanks very much regards Stephen

[Bowie69]

Happy to store for as long as needed

 

[Anderzander]

2 hours ago, Daan said:

An overdrive would raise the gearing 28%, but leaving it permanently engaged is probably not the most sensible thing to do.

 

I think the roamer drives can be used in every gear - and if it’s only for heading back and the odd injection of pace it might work? 
 

Better tyres with low pressures, sorted diff locks, he’d have a crawler 😀

[Ed Poore]

If you're thinking about changing tyres would bigger ones work? Increase the rolling circumference a bit to help with gearing.

I thought going to 33" tyres from 31" with a 1.2 transfer box was going to be painful on a standard 300Tdi but I've actually found the opposite to a certain extent. There's no denying it's taller and 5th has become basically a cruising gear unable to pull the (Welsh) hills but 70mph in 4th is absolutely fine. The other far more pronounced change is that the gears are in more useful places.

So if the suspension travel etc., works out I wouldn't necessarily rule out bigger tyres to increase gearing. I found the same over the weekend because where I'd historically be using 2nd and 3rd I was more often than not using 1st and 2nd.

[steve b]

An extremely successful test run overall (ignoring the trailer...)

I've enjoyed reading each update on this and the 7s thread, 8 would seem more fitting when a good one turns up but in the meantime there should be some hidden extra bhp in that 200.

I have a 1.003TB here so you know the choice is there, no decent V8's though

What psi did you have in the tyres? What is the minimum rim diameter to clear the brakes?

I did mention Wildfing on the 7s thread in terms of how both trucks make challenging terrain look like a Park drive, I guess Bill is retired now?

 

Steve

 

[Ed Poore]

11 minutes ago, Stellaghost said:

Just reading back through the thread part of the problem I think is my standard engine does not have enough oomph to pull Sid up hills in low 4th or 5th

Regards Stephen

As a quick win what about a variable vane turbo grafted onto a 200Tdi to give it more oomph lower down?

They're big bucks from Alisport etc., but I seem to recall they started life off an Audi perhaps and people did some minor fettling to the manifolds to make them fit a 300. A man of your skills should have no bother in doing the fabrication required and you could then get a good scrap turbo to use rather than paying the £1k for the bolt on jobby. 

Edit: I think there's a thread somewhere on here of someone doing just that.

[FridgeFreezer]

7 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

I think the roamer drives can be used in every gear - and if it’s only for heading back and the odd injection of pace it might work?

They can but good luck finding one for cheap, they've over 2k new now I think.

 

Just now, Ed Poore said:

As a quick win what about a variable vane turbo grafted onto a 200Tdi to give it more oomph lower down?

They're big bucks from Alisport etc., but I seem to recall they started life off an Audi perhaps and people did some minor fettling to the manifolds to make them fit a 300. A man of your skills should have no bother in doing the fabrication required and you could then get a good scrap turbo to use rather than paying the £1k for the bolt on jobby. 

Loads of stuff has VNT's, the TD4 Freelanders use them so that should be easy to find. Controlling it sensibly is the issue, the actual actuation is easy but mapping the response Vs engine parameters (load, RPM, throttle, whatever) is the tricky part.

The 2.8 TGV lump is VNT but that uses a fairly basic control scheme that I understand to be not quite optimal, but I don't do diesels or turbos so haven't paid much attention...

Most 200TDi's out there are so old and shagged out now it's likely a fulsome rebuild & overhaul of the injector pump etc. could liberate as many ponies as any mods would.

[Ed Poore]

Just now, FridgeFreezer said:

The 2.8 TGV lump is VNT but that uses a fairly basic control scheme that I understand to be not quite optimal, but I don't do diesels or turbos so haven't paid much attention...

You won't get anywhere close to optimal without an ECU. My godfather in Germany had a VNT fitted (maybe by BAS) to his 300Tdi and said it utterly transformed it, not more power but over a greater range and more usable.

The point I was trying to make was that if Stephen can find a suitable VNT (I'll try and find the thread) from a scrappy for next to nothing he's got the scrap and knowledge lying around to make it work. There was no electronics or anything required to make it work, possibly just a wee bit of extra plumbing. He likes making things so I think he'd prefer that over overhauling an engine. If it were me if it as going to cost more than a £100 to source the turbo probably not worth it but if he can find one cheap / free them why not.

Watch him now graft a turbo from a scania or something onto it...

[Bowie69]

A tweak to the injection pump is a lot, lot simpler than all that....

[Ed Poore]

But there's only so far you can turn it up before you need more air into it... 

[CwazyWabbit]

5 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

You won't get anywhere close to optimal without an ECU. My godfather in Germany had a VNT fitted (maybe by BAS) to his 300Tdi and said it utterly transformed it, not more power but over a greater range and more usable.

The point I was trying to make was that if Stephen can find a suitable VNT (I'll try and find the thread) from a scrappy for next to nothing he's got the scrap and knowledge lying around to make it work. There was no electronics or anything required to make it work, possibly just a wee bit of extra plumbing. He likes making things so I think he'd prefer that over overhauling an engine. If it were me if it as going to cost more than a £100 to source the turbo probably not worth it but if he can find one cheap / free them why not.

Watch him now graft a turbo from a scania or something onto it...

Was it this one?