Yostumpy Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 I was thinking today, why are RAI's seldom seen (now and in the past) on series LRs, yet every defender in the supermarket car park has one. I know that is is a must have 'accessory' but this is aided by images on t'web. So. ...... Are defenders used for more 'adventurous' ie silly, offroad pursuits, mimicking the Camel Trophy days, play days wallowing in gritty muddy water etc. Has the use of the truck now changed from farm hack Series, to tonka toy Defender? Are the old Series oil bath filter situated in the engine bay, superior to the side mounted Defender intake, is it really that vunerable?. The Military N/A had an engine bay mounted filter towards the ns front wing, and this ws deemed adequate for military duty, only the 'waders' had them fitted. So you could fit an extension pipe from the air box to the front inner wing, and bypass the side inlet, good enough for the army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Not sure why.... Think a lot of Series are seen as something to keep "original" and snorkel don't somehow seem to fit into that picture. Me, as some may know, is not sure what original means so mods are made as we go and a RAI is one that is to be done once the Hybrid is running again - need to find time.. As I have a 200 Tdi in there, the airintake system isn't very original so I need to decide what goes where and than make something that sort of works - but most of all is waterproof, has provisions for the various breathers etc... Perhaps some of our Series owners with one can show us a picture or 2.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 It's usually marketing from JLR or dealerships. It's why some folk buy a Defender for the name and wash it constantly and place sawtooth alloys and an expedition roof rack and secretly call themselves Bear grylls... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 The snorkel version of the oil bath air filter is hard to find. If anyone has one, please PM me. My lightweight is going to get one. The idea of a few feet of water stopping my truck is annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yostumpy Posted April 27, 2019 Author Share Posted April 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gazzar said: The snorkel version of the oil bath air filter is hard to find. If anyone has one, please PM me. My lightweight is going to get one. The idea of a few feet of water stopping my truck is annoying. now this is interesting, because in the early 1950's the First Overland expedition, drove from London to Singapore, in two Series 1's, crossing many, many rivers, in remote places, but there were no snorkels, and folks are now worried about a few feet of water. I don't understand where this 'need' came from. I'm not 'dissing' anyone that wants to fit / already has one, but unless you are going to drive in very deep water, more than once, because if it was only once, or maybe' then you would take an easier route, why would you fit one. Its quite funny that now, one some forums, when someone buys an early 90's truck, that has a white roof, std white wheels, no RAI, no LED, no winch, no tat n'bling, everyone says..'or, thats nice, an unmolested original one, then they put a RAI on it and LEDs and spoil it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Very true, but they look cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yostumpy Posted April 27, 2019 Author Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) I think my main point , is that it is mostly a post 200tdi phenomenon, with the external wing vent, that allows simple 'bolt on ' cool, whether the system is sealed or not. Pre 200 tdi, and you 'really' had to want to fit one, as it meant cutting the body, or a very expensive custom jobbie. Edited April 27, 2019 by Yostumpy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Gazzar said: The snorkel version of the oil bath air filter is hard to find. If anyone has one, please PM me. My lightweight is going to get one. The idea of a few feet of water stopping my truck is annoying. Can’t see a few feet of water being an issue air intake wise. As long as you aren’t parked in it, well up the grill will be fine with the stock intake. Water proofing the electrics on a petrol will be more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 With old Series, the majority being petrol, they cut out due to ignition problems way before a snorkel becomes necessary! Also back in the olden days 4x4 accessories were less of a thing, not so many years ago you were the big boy on site if you had a set of BFG muds and any sort of winch at all on your truck. TBH most of the wading people ever do you can get away without a snorkel, but these days they're cheap and easy to fit and give peace of mind so why not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Raised air intakes are mainly for sucking in cleaner air when driving on dusty or sandy tracks- air filters clog up real quick otherwise, especially in convoy. Thats why the mushroom top type intakes have angled vents, to encourage a vortex to separate the particles, or they can have prefilter tops. Oil bath filters are probably a bit more effective at catching the particles, and they don't go fast enough to kick up a dust cloud! Yes they're used for wading too if sealed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Raised air intakes were not intended for wading. They were originally designed for use in dusty/Sandy environments where their function was to separate at least some of the dust from the air, before it reached the filter, thus prolonging the service life of said filter. It was noticeable that military Land Rovers sprouted RAI during the gulf wars, before that the only military Land Rovers fitted with RAI were those used by the Royal Marines for beach landings and the like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Most Defender vehicles here have them and a lot are fitted for form, but the function bit is preserving air filter life far more than wading. The external air intake does suck in mud and water especially driving in muddy or wet conditions with wide tyres on, but particularly on the Puma the air filter life is pretty poor. The Puma seems to suck much harder than the Tdi drawing in a lot more carp, and the flat air filter is inherently more prone to blockage - the engine then shuts down into some sort of limp home mode and you can only do about 20mph. In a dry summer the roads here (mostly gravel, can be very dusty when dry) can be hard on air filters and off road there can be lots of dust and grass seed flying around. While few if any do the water-up-the-windscreen wading, it's nice to have the peace of mind that if you do have to plough through a stream that happens to be in flood, you don't have to worry about it, as it only takes about two seconds to ruin your day. Series didn't have them and there have been quite a few left parked nose-down in streams over the years too, in the days before there were any roads at all, but I think the old oil bath filter was just fundamentally better at filtering stuff out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 The issue with oil bath is the risk of interaction of an oily air stream with a turbo. But better for na engines, despite taking longer to service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 For a given size/volume of filter (highly important in modern engine-bay packaging) oil-bath (or oiled-cotton K&N-type) air cleaners are less-efficient than paper ones at catching very fine dust; that's why big industrial machinery like tractors and combines invariably use paper elements. [During harvest a farming friend is replacing the air-filters on his New Holland every day - and that's _with_ an elevated intake/pre-cleaner.] Oil-bath-type cleaners are also less efficient than paper at suppressing intake noise [again important when a drive-by dB-measurement is part of vehicle type-approval] Snorkels etc - on a vehicle that spends 99.99% of its time being driven on normal UK roads they have zero value - indeed by restricting airflow they're likely to rob you of both horsepower and fuel-economy. I guess posing-points-when-parked are more important to some people than actual driving performance. I'll stick with flat-panel paper air-filters and no snorkels for my general-use vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneandtwo Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 8 hours ago, Tanuki said: Snorkels etc - on a vehicle that spends 99.99% of its time being driven on normal UK roads they have zero value - indeed by restricting airflow they're likely to rob you of both horsepower and fuel-economy. My extortionately expensive genuine Land Rover snorkel noticeable affected the top end power of my old 300tdi, however I fitted the same model snorkel to my Puma and didn’t make any noticeable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 10 hours ago, oneandtwo said: My extortionately expensive genuine Land Rover snorkel noticeable affected the top end power of my old 300tdi, In a positive or negative way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneandtwo Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 18 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said: In a positive or negative way? It lost power at the top end - on a motorway incline it felt like it was being held back. It was a 300tdi with only a very rotation of the diaphragm / fuel pin but fitted with full width AlliSport intercooler and foam air filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 4/28/2019 at 2:17 AM, FridgeFreezer said: With old Series, the majority being petrol, they cut out due to ignition problems way before a snorkel becomes necessary! Also back in the olden days 4x4 accessories were less of a thing, not so many years ago you were the big boy on site if you had a set of BFG muds and any sort of winch at all on your truck. TBH most of the wading people ever do you can get away without a snorkel, but these days they're cheap and easy to fit and give peace of mind so why not? Nail and head. The petrols' electrics did prevent water ingestion, so snorkels were not of much benefit. Diesels were less common, so the snorkel kits were rare (and so expensive). Now that almost all Defenders are diesel and not as hydrophobic, snorkels are more beneficial but the Defender intake system is also far easier and cheaper to add a snorkel to. More people go on far flung adventures, or at least aspire to, than in the past, so the desire for the extra protection from dust, sand or water gives cheap and easy peace of mind. In fairness, though, modern society seems to enshrine the roughty-toughty image, which is why so many now sport lumber-jack beards and spend far too much time in the gym, and oversize tyres and snorkels are sometimes the Land Rover manifestation of that trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Snagger said: In fairness, though, modern society seems to enshrine the roughty-toughty image, which is why so many now sport lumber-jack beards and spend far too much time in the gym, and oversize tyres and snorkels are sometimes the Land Rover manifestation of that trend. Oh I don't think it's exclusive to Defenders - in fact even the worst offenders are usually more tasteful than some others... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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