Bowie69 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Following on from the Topic on the new 'Defender ', this thread is for the collective wisdom (err...) and other stuff all to do with the forthcoming Ineos Grenadier, being assembled in south Wales. 'some say' it will be the true successor to the land rover this forum actually likes... Couple of articles to kick things off... https://projektgrenadier.com https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49733291 https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/96387/new-2020-ineos-projekt-grenadier-engines-and-specs-announced If any mod has the time/inclination to copy some of the Grenadier related posts from the other thread, that would be great! Off we go then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HampshireHog Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Will Sir Jim / Ineos have grief from Land Rover if the Grenadier is a copy of the old Defender ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 20, 2019 Author Share Posted September 20, 2019 I expect they may try it, they are particularly protective about such things..... However, Jim has made successes in other business (to say the least), plus he isn't building it in China 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Would guess the Original shape/design is well protected with copyrights. LR succeded in beating the chinese 'landwind' evoque look alike to change the design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I was thinking about that - and thought he needs it to look sufficiently different to avoid copyright - but he also says it will be made with flat panels and will ‘be the spiritual successor to the Defender.’ Perhaps somewhere between a Land Rover and a G-Wagon would work. Sufficiently different whilst being sufficiently the same ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 There are folk on the net saying there’s is no market for the Ineos... ...around where I live I see loads of businesses, small and large, who have held onto their last Defender; tree surgeons, ground investigation companies, environment agency, caravan parks, mountain rescue - and the list goes on - they’ve all kept a Defender working, where they would have replaced it if production hadn’t ceased or of there was a similar vehicle available today. They obviously see something in a functional vehicle and would seem a ready made market for a well made and affordable Ineos. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 I'd agree it is not huge in the UK, but it is certainly unfulfilled at the moment, there's just too many outdoorsy jobs that any vehicle with carpet in is just not suitable. Being easily adaptable, and being available in a chassis cab for stuff to be bolted to the back of it will of course be a huge plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 But if he can make it simple enough for third world nations, there is an export opportunity. Toyota are getting more expensive and far less reliable than their past. If Grenadier really take the “spiritual successor” but seriously, maybe he also has an eye on the “export of die” philosophy that made LR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Indeed, export is certainly an opportunity, could even set up separate assembly plants for different regions if the financials were enticing. But given his stance on Brexit, I'd guess he kinda likes making things in the UK, which is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 CKD? That really would be following the original LR! I don’t know how profitable that is compared to shipping completed vehicles, and I suspect it’s often to get better import deals from governments by creating local employment, but in many third world nations, it would save on labour costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Snagger said: CKD? Well essentially that is almost what Sir Jim is proposing here, and to be honest, how most UK based vehicle manufacturing is carried out -lots of component outsourced to the lowest bidder and assembled in a massive plant. The chassis are to be built in Portugal, the engines delivered from Germany, no doubt with the 8-speed ZF attached, transfer box? Well likely a Beamer or maybe g-wagen item, as the LT230 is just too long in the tooth, and noisy, for today's vehicles (more's the pity). Not sure about the body, obviously could be made over here, but packaging it up for foreign assembly would be no problem. It would only be one small step on from current proposals. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Quote NEOS Automotive has confirmed that in parallel, it will be investing in a sub-assembly plant in Estarreja, Portugal. The facility will produce the Grenadier’s body and chassis, working in conjunction with INEOS’s European supply chain partners From here: https://www.ineos.com/news/shared-news/ineos-automotives-uncompromising-4x4-to-be-built-in-wales-and-named-grenadier/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Quote If you’re one of those who thinks that the new Defender is far too Chelsea, the Grenadier could be the SUV for you. Or rather it could be, if Ineos was referring to the Grenadier as an SUV. “We’re dropping the S,” says Mark Tennant, Commercial Director of Ineos Automotive. “It’s a utility vehicle and our primary focus is to build the brand around the vehicle as a working tool. So in practice we’re targeting small business owners, fleet operators and people who need to tow stuff or carry lots of stuff. It should be for work primarily but also useable for play. It’s the classlessness of the vehicle that appeals. From: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/suvs/ineos-grenadier-will-be-no-nonsense-british-4x4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Aha, body and chassis in Portugal, thanks. Almost CKD then anyways! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 more links https://www.ineos.com/businesses/ineos-automotive/projektgrenadier/ https://ineosgrenadier.com/ & a Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/INEOSGrenadier/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Any insight as to corrosion protection on the chassis? Galvanized? Or true defender, a slight whiff of paint as it went past the paint tin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I don’t think we know any of that yet ....... just that it’s a separate chassis, alloy body, 3 diff locks, a plug in the cab floor so you can wash it out, flat bodywork you can rest a mug on, and Bluetooth... I think that’s it !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Gazzar said: Any insight as to corrosion protection on the chassis? Galvanized? Or true defender, a slight whiff of paint as it went past the paint tin? I'd be hoping that the chassis will be stressed aluminium/composite (if only so it can be engineered to have crumple-zones and so deliver proper 21st-century occupant-protection) - in which case I'd be expecting an etch-primer as the protection. Sacrifical anodes [Magnesium] might be a sensible option if you're going anywhere near sea-water. Steel chassis is such an outdated, heavy, inefficient approach: they don't even use them for trains these days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Steel is, however, simple to repair in the field, adapt and cheap to build, I think it can cope with flexing fairly well. And in fairness, trains usually run on smoother roads than off road utility vehicles used by the target market. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Anodes are zinc for sea water magnesium for fresh water. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I've been sent a mailer on the subject. http://view.grenadier.ineos.com/?qs=4f6ac00b27e80ec03f3f31fd0b47ed8d7fcbb68fbc25ab403a444fb9d6b6e16d2b3dcf10523c673b4c6db443b71d9b6e3ab2f70bd0f9dd0f3666ac14ce25256228b43b660bb9aec0 No clear pictures of the test vehicles, but the video clips look like a mutant Jap pickup. Looks like the marketing effort has started in a small way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 A couple of screen grabs from their video .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Ooh Extreme orange The first pic is a different axle to the second , are they going to have a 7.5t rough terrain truck too ? Watching with interest , after all this is the first UK made light 4x4 alternative to Land Rover since the Austin Gypsy . cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I don't understand? No yellow paint, high profile tyres? Knobbly tyres? Long travel springs? Is that a live axle? Lap times will be dreadful! Seriously though, looks interesting. That track bar, is it a bit low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Bit of a shame about that track rod geometry, if that is what it is (it looks like it). The reg number on the vehicle in front doesn't come up on DVLA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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