Anderzander Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Could I seek a bit of advice please.... I’m not thinking clearly. When I go camping with my 80 I want to make sure I protect the battery, whilst I’ll be parked up using the diesel heater, a fridge, lights and charging various gizmos. For normal use I’m happy with just the starter battery, and I’m limited in the battery size I can fit in - so there is little scope for scaling the existing battery up. All the ancillary kit is already separately fused in the seat box with the battery - with separate wires to the battery. So I was wondering about having a demountable leisure battery, that I could strap into the tub and divert the ancillary circuits mentioned onto it - and perhaps have a vsr set up to charge it. Anyone any suggestions for what kind of connectors I might use so I can cleanly and easily route the wiring out of the seatbox to the tub and be able to disconnect and remove it please ? Everything I Google is for a permanent installation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Anderson connectors will work well in this scenario. If you need all the accessory wiring to be portable, you could achieve this with Anderson’s too. Just have vsr and main connector installed on your s1. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Echo Trailers make one.www.echo4x4.co.saWorth a look to see how it's made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 https://www.nationalluna.com/product/12v-auxiliary-battery-box Something you could knock up for less than the £400 price. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 I use Powercon for pluggin the truck into the mains to charge the batteries when at home. I have a chassis mount on the truck wired into the battery charger and a cable with a standard 13amp plug on the end. I'll get a pic tomorrow of it You could wire your inputs for the leisure battery to a weather proof chassis mount. A split cable ( + & - ) on one end and a male Powercon on the other, just plug it in when you want to use the extra battery Powercon are made by Neutrik which are well known in the sound and lighting industry. https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/powercon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Badger110 said: I use Powercon for pluggin the truck into the mains to charge the batteries when at home. I have a chassis mount on the truck wired into the battery charger and a cable with a standard 13amp plug on the end. I'll get a pic tomorrow of it You could wire your inputs for the leisure battery to a weather proof chassis mount. A split cable ( + & - ) on one end and a male Powercon on the other, just plug it in when you want to use the extra battery Powercon are made by Neutrik which are well known in the sound and lighting industry. https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/powercon Powercon are a great connector.... but I'm sure if they'd be up to the potential charge currents of a pretty well drained battery being charged. I think Anderzander would be better off with an Anderson connector. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 11 hours ago, landroversforever said: Powercon are a great connector.... but I'm sure if they'd be up to the potential charge currents of a pretty well drained battery being charged. I think Anderzander would be better off with an Anderson connector. This is true and a good point. If he wants to fit a VSR and combine it with the vehicle wiring loom then yes, he's going to need something that can carry the ampage and the Anderson is a better choice. For a seperate system which he has at the moment, the Powercon would work to supply power from the leisure battery only and for me it looks likes a neater, cleaner solution. The current wires to the battery can be fed to a chassis mount instead and plug the leisure battery in. Anderson plugs would be better if looking to add to the main loom for charging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glue Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 As Ross has said, powercons are great connectors but... They are only rated for 16A (@240v ac), and do not have any current breaking capacity. This means they should only be used to connect isolated circuits. It's relatively easy to get the connectors to arc over and ultimately weld themselves together when mated/unmated live. Given their use in a 12v situation where the potential current draw is generally higher than mains this becomes even more likely. If you were determined to work with them then I'd be looking at the Powercon True1 TOP series, which are rated for 16A WITH breaking capacity and also IP65 which is a bonus when in a landrover. Generally I'd avoid using mains rated connectors for 12v applications, I work in the events power industry where the potential for somebody to plug a 240v supply into a 12v circuit (and thus destroying it) would be too great. I have seen Neutrik's "Speakon" used for low voltage work, They are a 40A rated connector, (again with no breaking capacity), but very unlikely to be found running at 240v. Personally I'd be looking to use Anderson connectors, either SB50s for Powerpoles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Glue said: If you were determined to work with them then I'd be looking at the Powercon True1 TOP series, which are rated for 16A WITH breaking capacity and also IP65 which is a bonus when in a landrover. I used the True Top series combined with the spring loaded cover ( SCCD-W ) to do mine for that reason. I didn't want to be using the standard 16amp commando plug set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I wouldn't use a mains connector for 12v if only because of Sod's law there's plenty of perfectly suitable 12v connectors out there there's no need to use the wrong thing for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 Thank you everyone 😊 15 hours ago, Badger110 said: If he wants to fit a VSR I think that’s that’s the plan! Very tight for space in my seat box though .... so I need to think about how to make it work neatly. On 11/27/2020 at 3:40 PM, mmgemini said: www.echo4x4.co.za Worth a look to see how it's made I couldn’t find anything on their website ..... I’ll have another look later. 14 hours ago, Glue said: SB50s for Powerpoles I hadn’t seen the power poles before - they look like they would be good for being able to switch the accessory wiring from the main battery. If I can fit the vsr in there, then perhaps I could wire the accessories straight to the vsr - either manually changing from one positive terminal to another for when I connect the 2nd battery....or putting a changeover switch in there. .. and running the wiring for the 2nd battery out through some grommets to a pair of SB50 in the tub.... 🤔 Daft questions - I assume the relay doesn’t sense both ways? And I assume it won’t be taking charging away from the main battery when the 2nd one isn’t connected - as there won’t be anything to draw the current? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 It doesn’t sense both ways, you need a more intelligent dc to dc charger to do that. With the vsr in place, yes you can wire your accessories off the vsr so they only get power when the main battery is being charged. When the main battery is not being charged, there is no draw from the vsr or anything attached downstream of it. If you wire your Anderson connector in the tub, just try to minimize length of cable run as much as possible and use sufficient gauge of wire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 Thanks Steve - I should be able to get the 2nd battery right into the front corner of the tub by the seat box. So depending on the wire run, I might be able to do it with just 18 - 24” or so of wiring. These covered chassis mounts for the SB50’s look good: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333741853488 The ideal for the accessory is that I can have them switched to run off the single battery in the seat box - in normal running. Then when I drop and plug in the 2nd battery for a trip, that I can switch it to be in that circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Yes the vsr can do that for you. So your accessories and your connected spare battery will be powered when engine is on and charging. When the engine is off, they will be powered by your connected spare battery. ‘if you want the scenario where you can power your accessories off the main battery when engine is off and not charging and you don’t have the spare battery connected you can fit a multi position isolator switch... https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/marine-battery-isolator-changeover-switch-round-body-4-positions.html What’s the output of your alternator? If it’s over 50A (likely) you’ll want to go bigger than the 50A Anderson connector, there’s 120A which should be sufficient or 350A if you want overkill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romahomepete Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Stephen, I am planning on fitting a second battery in a box in my tub. I will be using anderson connectors but I will also be using a s[plit charge relay as per caravan and motorhome leisure batteries. They are very easy to wire up and really it is a case of fit and forget, no need to think about switches etc. I have done it enough times in camper to know that it is straightforward, just make sure the feed wires for charging are of the correct specification. (When motorcaravan converters do it they fit the smallest they can get awawy with.) Remember if your leisure battery is flat then your alternator could be pushing 50 amps in that direction and you need some redundancy. The current split charge relay in our camper is rated at 90 amp. The battery is 125 amphour and it runs our Eberspacher hot air/hot water heater with no problem but I have upped the supply cable to that too. The battery I amp putting in the land rover will not be as big as that, it is just for lights and usb charging when camping. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 Thanks both. I’m on a standard 200tdi alternator - which I think is 65amp? I might try and draw the switch in the circuit that I’m thinking of - I may not be doing a good job of describing it! I basically want 2 scenarios: as is now: a single battery running starter and accessories - but the wiring in place so I can ... add a second battery that takes the accessory feeds, and protects the starter battery, when we’re camping. (starter = starter battery ⬇️) It needs to be removable for space in everyday use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 I thought the standard 200 alternator is 45 amps, though might be different on a disco. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Yep^^^ 45amp on defender engines and 65amp on disco ones was what I thought too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 On 11/29/2020 at 9:20 AM, SteveG said: What’s the output of your alternator? If it’s over 50A (likely) you’ll want to go bigger than the 50A Anderson connector, there’s 120A which should be sufficient or 350A if you want overkill. I’m on with this now and after reading the SB 50 specs noticed something relevant here: they are UL rated to 120A - and 50A hot plugging. So as long as I’m not plugging them in with a big live load - they should be fine for the 65A rating of my alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 One thing I didn’t get, or didn’t sink in from this, is : I assume a VSR will open/connect even where there is nothing connected to the 2nd battery side? If that’s so - I’m not sure how I can elegantly make accessories switch which battery they use : ie using the main battery when the leisure isn’t connected, wether the engine is running or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 If you put a switch in the VSRs earth wire, then you can switch it off 👍 That will isolate it and anything on the Aux side. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 On 11/29/2020 at 9:31 AM, Romahomepete said: Remember if your leisure battery is flat then your alternator could be pushing 50 amps in that direction and you need some redundancy. If you include the accessory draw in your calculation, maybe, but a lead acid battery will only ever take a max of 25A even if completely flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said: If you put a switch in the VSRs earth wire, then you can switch it off 👍 That will isolate it and anything on the Aux side. Mo Thanks Mo - that’s helpful. So I could do what I wanted with two switches … on/on switching the accessory live between either +ve side of the VSR … and on/off on the VSR earth 🙂 It would be nice if I could find one switch to do that … but I’m struggling to find an on/on above just a handful of Amps.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Might be easier to make it all manual for what you want and use a blue sea 4 way switch… https://www.bluesea.com/products/9002e/e-Series_Selector_Battery_Switch_with_AFD hang your accessories off the common pole, main battery on 1, aux battery on 2. 1. Accessories running off main battery 2. Accessories running off aux battery 1+2 Accessories running off main and aux (plus aux charging) OFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Or you could do it all with relays off of one small switch but Steve's suggestion has the benefit of simplicity and requires only the use of your addled brains 😁 Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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