MOT, Class 4 or 7? Defender 110 td5

[DiveTramp]

I've been working on a defender 110 td5, replacing rotten chassis bits. 

The owner just took it for its MOT but they didn't carry out the MOT as they said it's too heavy and must be a class 7 MOT (that they can't do). 

It's never had this trouble before with MOT's. It's kitted out as a simple campervan with two seat up front. How come they are now classing it as a class 7? 

[western]

If its a Station Wagon its a Class 4 test, if its max laden weight is over 3000kg then its a class 7 IIRC. is it taxed as a  commercial or private or motorcaravan ? 

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/mot-test-fees

Goods vehicles (up to 3,000kg design gross weight) Class 4

Goods vehicles (over 3,000kg up to 3,500kg design gross weight) Class 7

[DiveTramp]

It's taxed and used as a private vehicle. There is no way to register it as a campervan these days, the DVLA changed the rules on this two years ago. 

[steve b]

It should be class 7 but a lot were put in class4 when MOT's went digital . What does the .gov site say it is ? 

Steve

[DiveTramp]

I've just heard from her, that the plate shows it to be 3050kg. What a bummer! No worries tho, she's booked it in with the Landy garage that she used to use for repairs and MOT's in the past. She only went to the other MOT station for "quickness of getting the mot done"! 

[pat_pending]

If it has an un laden weight of 2040kg or less it will be a dual purpose vehicle and is tested as a class 4 even though it's gross weight is over 3000kg.

However, part of the criteria for being a dual purpose vehicle is that it must be "constructed or adapted for the carriage of both passengers and goods".

The conversion to campervan may well have pushed it outside that definition and into a class 7 test.

 

[dave88sw]

On my 110 van, the VIN plate is marked 3050kg, but the logbook states a gross weight of 2999kg.  The MOT tester wasn't happy to test it as a class 4 until i showed him the logbook.

[ballcock]

Camper vans can be tested as class four even if over 3000kg. Even if registered as van with windows with the DVLA.

[FridgeFreezer]

Good MOT stations won't care and will MOT it, it's the picky jobsworth ones that will kick off.

Had the same experience with our 127 Ambulance/Camper, one place turned it away (after initially saying they could do it) because it was registered as an Ambulance but didn't have enough ambulancey gear in the back while the two local stations I use regularly happily MOT it with no qualms at all. I assume these days if there was any problem with what they're doing the DVLA computer would reject it anyway so it's just people being awkward.

[Ed Poore]

Just to throw a spanner into the discussion I remember there being an "exception" for want of a better word where if all wheels were driven then it wasn't classed as commercial but a dual purpose vehicle which may have shunted it into class 4. I did find some government page about a year ago which had this all wheels driven clause but can't today.

Although what @FridgeFreezer says - a good MOT station won't care. I normally use a small independent local to me but he can only do Class 4 because technically his lift isn't supposed to have vehicles over the 3t mark (or something along those lines). When I asked him about the 6x6 he said he wouldn't based off the fact that it only had a single cab and was plated for 3.5t (well technically it's plated for 4t but the log book is 3.5t). Didn't really matter as I found somewhat by accident another nice independent a little further afield who do class 4 and 7 and the MOT tester is a Land Rover nut so he didn't care what it was going to be tested under - he wanted to get his hands on it .

Although to simplify any potential issues later on he booked its weight down as 3450kg as per the log book rather than the original factory plate. Doesn't matter the rest of the log book is a work of fiction too - registered as a Land Rover 109 twin axled utility 4x4 with a 5.7l diesel. Whereas the actual facts at the time were it was a Sandringham 6 139" triple axled utility 6x6 with a 2.8l diesel in it. As it's going to (hopefully soon) have a 3.5l SL35Ti in there I wasn't too fussed about changing the engine capacity. The insurance is aware of everything - they just said describe it in as much detail as you can and we'll put it down as a factory built vehicle in that configuration (apart from the engine which I know for a fact was modified).

[pat_pending]

20 hours ago, ballcock said:

Camper vans can be tested as class four even if over 3000kg. Even if registered as van with windows with the DVLA.

Correct, I had it in my head there was a weight issue, checked today and there isn't. 

It would still need to meet the definition of a camper van, as laid out in the testing manual though.

8 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Good MOT stations won't care and will MOT it, it's the picky jobsworth ones that will kick off.

. I assume these days if there was any problem with what they're doing the DVLA computer would reject it anyway so it's just people being awkward.

Exactly, the test class is in the system already.

On the old system it asked you to enter the test class and you could change it, from say 7 to 4 if you thought the vehicle fitted the criteria. I had a look today and I couldn't see a way of changing it, I think it would need to be done by DVSA if you thought the vehicle was in the wrong class.

A class 4 test station cannot test a vehicle logged as a class 7.

If the vehicle in the OP has previously been tested as a class 4 then there shouldn't be a problem, providing the test station can cope with weight/size.

 

6 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

Just to throw a spanner into the discussion I remember there being an "exception" for want of a better word where if all wheels were driven then it wasn't classed as commercial but a dual purpose vehicle which may have shunted it into class 4. I did find some government page about a year ago which had this all wheels driven clause but can't today.

All the definitions, including dual purpose vehicles and camper vans are in the "MOT testing guide for test stations" here if the link works.

[Jocklandjohn]

Last 30 years of MOT's on mine (110 HT with campy bits and stuff) has been Class 4 with 18 years of those with the same tester but last year the regular MOT place was backlogged after Covid with a 4 week wait so took it to another place that only had a 2 week wait.

When I turned up they had a bit of a tyre kick and said sorry Class 7 and we cant do it as our lift is too feeble. Otherwise they said they'd have done it as Class 7.

So back in the queue for the regular tester ( another 3 week wait!) and it was all fine and he remarked how pleasant it was to MOT something that was well looked after. So, still Class 4.

[Ed Poore]

1 hour ago, pat_pending said:

All the definitions, including dual purpose vehicles and camper vans are in the "MOT testing guide for test stations" here if the link works.

The link does work 👍

Am I correct in my interpretation of this:

1. Any dual purpose vehicle should be tested as Class 4?
2. If we say that my 6x6 came in under 2040kg* then because it's permanent 6x6 drive it is therefore a dual purpose vehicle because of clause A2.2a and therefore Class 4?

It's not actually that far off I don't think - when I took some scrap down when "empty" I reversed the trailer off the weighbridge and had the 6x6 re-weighed and it came in at 2.3t and that was with a full tank of fuel, me (not the lightest ) onboard and probably 20kg+ of ratchet straps and assorted carp in the cab.

I've actually got the bed off the back of it at the moment to eventually come up with some body swap mechanism so I can interchange between the flat-bed / tipper, cherry picker and a future camper body among others so it'd be interesting to nip down to the weighbridge and get it weighed down when it's stripped down to the bare body.

[Tim2809]

Dvla will still change to motorcaravan but they want pictures and have a list of items that should be fitted. A fixed toilet being 1 of the items. 
if its type approval is n1 and its gvw is 3050 then class 7 

if its m1 its class 4 

if they try registering it on the mot computer it will tell them what class it is 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Tim2809

[pat_pending]

1 hour ago, Ed Poore said:

The link does work 👍

Am I correct in my interpretation of this:

1. Any dual purpose vehicle should be tested as Class 4?
2. If we say that my 6x6 came in under 2040kg* then because it's permanent 6x6 drive it is therefore a dual purpose vehicle because of clause A2.2a and therefore Class 4?

It's not actually that far off I don't think - when I took some scrap down when "empty" I reversed the trailer off the weighbridge and had the 6x6 re-weighed and it came in at 2.3t and that was with a full tank of fuel, me (not the lightest ) onboard and probably 20kg+ of ratchet straps and assorted carp in the cab.

I've actually got the bed off the back of it at the moment to eventually come up with some body swap mechanism so I can interchange between the flat-bed / tipper, cherry picker and a future camper body among others so it'd be interesting to nip down to the weighbridge and get it weighed down when it's stripped down to the bare body.

Yes, it would appear to be a dual purpose vehicle and class4 "if" it was under 2040kg unladen and you could prove it.

This quote from the inspection manual may help... although when they say 4x4 do they mean  all wheel drive, because nobody thought about six wheelers, or only 4x4? I'm not sure, I might ping them an email tomorrow.

 The unladen weight of a dual-purpose vehicle must not exceed 2,040kg. However, 4 × 4 pickup vehicles with a DGW over 3,000kg up to and including 3,500kg are considered dual purpose vehicles for test purposes if information about the unladen weight is not available.

What has it been tested as previously?

TBH there's little difference between class 4 and class 7 tests. Class 4 has the advantage of more stations, but class 7 will be better equipped to deal with Land Rover size vehicles and less likely to be intimidated by them.

[Ed Poore]

52 minutes ago, pat_pending said:

What has it been tested as previously?

Was tested as Class 7. I don't actually care if it's 7 or 4 to be honest it was just an interesting thought exercise. I doubt I'd be able to get it down sub 2040kg anyway, it might be under that without the bed on the back but I've got a hydraulic pump and a few extra bits to go on the chassis frame so doubt it will stay under that.

[ballcock]

10 hours ago, Tim2809 said:

Dvla will still change to motorcaravan but they want pictures and have a list of items that should be fitted. A fixed toilet being 1 of the items. 
if its type approval is n1 and its gvw is 3050 then class 7 

if its m1 its class 4 

if they try registering it on the mot computer it will tell them what class it is 

Trying to get the DVLA to reclass a van as a motorhome at the moment is near impossible, most are reclassified as "van with windows" which is a mockery of their system. But can still be Mot'ed as class 4 and have the higher speed restrictions.

[FridgeFreezer]

3 minutes ago, ballcock said:

Trying to get the DVLA to reclass a van as a motorhome at the moment is near impossible, most are reclassified as "van with windows" which is a mockery of their system. But can still be Mot'ed as class 4 and have the higher speed restrictions.

TBH trying to get the DVLA or VOSA/DVSA to give any sort of a s*** about anything is nigh on impossible - I couldn't get any answers on MOT exemption rules and gave up in the end, I tried my best and they clearly don't care so if it ever becomes a problem my conscience is clear.

With MOT class I'm not really sure why anyone should worry (aside from convenience) - at the end of the day the actual test itself is the same, you're not avoiding some vital safety check or any tax by swapping classes.

[Ed Poore]

I think there are a couple of minor differences between 4 and 7 I think, or at least it was mentioned by someone who has to have a lot of 4x4s, 6x6s, lorries and so on inspected regularly.

I think one of them was that the tyres are supposed to be explicitly checked for their load rating on the class 7. Minor points but I think that there were we a couple of differences - none that would make a difference in the real world anyway.

[Filbee]

My TD5 110 hardtop is registered as tax class N1 and gets a class 7 MOT. I have been debating whether it could be reclassified as M1 and class 4 now I've fitted a pair of removable seats in the back and at some point will fit some side windows. On balance I think the saving I make on the tax each year (it's a 2006 so if it was M1 I'd have to pay a lot more than N1) outweighs the lower speed limit and the class 7 MOT.

[landroversforever]

35 minutes ago, Filbee said:

My TD5 110 hardtop is registered as tax class N1 and gets a class 7 MOT. I have been debating whether it could be reclassified as M1 and class 4 now I've fitted a pair of removable seats in the back and at some point will fit some side windows. On balance I think the saving I make on the tax each year (it's a 2006 so if it was M1 I'd have to pay a lot more than N1) outweighs the lower speed limit and the class 7 MOT.

Worth noting that 2006 would bring it into a lower tax class rather than just the emissions based stuff for the later vehicles. That said I don't think the DVSA will reclassify stuff regaring M1/N1.

[Filbee]

10 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Worth noting that 2006 would bring it into a lower tax class rather than just the emissions based stuff for the later vehicles. That said I don't think the DVSA will reclassify stuff regaring M1/N1.

Hmmm, maybe I need to research this a bit more! I thought it would cost me about double if it was M1 rather than N1.

[landroversforever]

Just looked again (see note at the bottom)... applies up to registrations before March 23rd 2006 only  

[miketomcat]

This is why I registered my ibex as M1 much to the surprise of everyone else. I believe mine is the only ibex to go through M1 IVA. But being able to do 70mph and mot with the same guy I've used for 20 years was worth it.

Mike

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, miketomcat said:

This is why I registered my ibex as M1 much to the surprise of everyone else. I believe mine is the only ibex to go through M1 IVA. But being able to do 70mph and mot with the same guy I've used for 20 years was worth it.

Mike

Is it more than 2040kg unladen then?