Stub axle and hub advice

[uninformed]

@western

if you are referring to the little BSP plug at just above 9 o’clock, that’s the level plug, the height or volume indicator for when filling with oil. The fill plug is larger and further near the top and was retained through for one shot grease etc. Only the drain and level plug got deleted.

Interestingly, the D1 swivels I have are off a 94-95 300Tdi (narrow hub/stub etc) and still had all 3.

 

Now it’s most likely just a phasing out as we know LR were definitely not consistent for changes at given date.

[western]

Yes sorry the level plug, mine has all 3 on both sides as it's a 89 vehicle. 

[uninformed]

17 minutes ago, western said:

Yes sorry the level plug, mine has all 3 on both sides as it's a 89 vehicle. 

Other than the Railko and 10 spline, the early stuff is better IMO

[western]

Not had a problem with the rialko bushes in 28 years

[uninformed]

37 minutes ago, western said:

Not had a problem with the rialko bushes in 28 years

Yes they do the job fine and did on Series, just a personal preference for me. 

[Daan]

22 hours ago, Sigi_H said:

Absolutely not. I made it on my OneTen MY83. Where the bearing slips on, a spacer will slip on either. I made my spacers on my lathe, but they had the same size like stock spacers. It is not to speed up production, the production will even be slower. But it is self explaining in my eyes, that the fixed inner race of the bearing will elongate the lifetime a lot. If you look at your stub axle, you will see that the inner race have turned. The seal will have to work with this movement and will shortly let water in. Then everything is going to be killed.

 

 

Hi, are you saying you created a longer spacer to suit the early hub, or have you changed the hub and stub axle to the later version? I found the earlier setup much better, due to the bearings spaced further apart. This makes the setup much more stable, especially if you run big tyres.

Bearing life seem almost infinite if you run the bearings in oil, rather than grease. A spacer could work in theory, but it means the tolerance has to be incredibly tight, and there is the tolerance stack up between hub, bearings and spacer which is very hard to keep consistent. At least with the old system you could adjust the bearings if there was a bit too much play.

That is before I get into smaller CV and shaft on the newer system, as well as less engagement of the splines in the drive member.

I personally went from the new system to the old system, simply because I believe it is a better setup.

Daan

[Sigi_H]

@uninformed

I said, it is the best EXAMPLE picture I found, not it IS like that. But the concept ist the same, given the shaft equals your stub axle.
The spacers I made on my lathe are exactly the same like stock spacers.
You where talking about the entire bearings, I was talking about the inner races of the bearings, where the Spacer sits between

 

[Mossberg]

23 hours ago, uninformed said:

@Mossberg some blokes would press, some would “knock in” with a drift and hammer. Some like a press because it’s nice and progressive and you can set things up true/square, some like the simplicity of knocking in and will often have specific tools they have turned up for doing so, which also helps keep things aligned. 
 

A little bit of diff oil won’t hurt with installing, a finger smear in the stub and around the bush. Go easy and make sure it’s not going in crooked. 
 

Re the top swivel pin, my vague memory says they look the same or very similar outside, but I’ve only had a early one in hand once , and a while ago.

 

One thing I did notice different between my 98’ 110 and some 94’ D1 swivel housings, the D1 still had the drain and level plugs, the 110 only the fill plug. This could be age and not model related though. 

@uninformedfrom the photos you can see and the info regarding 10 spline drive shaft, can you identify which type of swivel I have. I have decided to go a bit further and do the swivel housings too. I have looked to purchase them but I am so unsure as to which to order. Being a bitsa, I just don't have the experience to say "I need this kit"

I wasn't going to do these yet, even though they need doing, due to my lack of experience.  I don't want to get myself into something I can't get out of!!!

As always any help is greatly appreciated. 

[uninformed]

Let’s assume your front axle is off a Land Rover (going by your separate drive flange) and not a D1. Your swivel ball and swivel housing are specific to the Railko bush type. These were up to ~1994 (The 300Tdi was the basic change over, but the last of the 200Tdi got rear discs and there was a odd 32 spline long stub shaft CV for a year or 2)

The best way to be sure is to disassemble and inspect your parts. 

If you go to the retroconda website that @western linked, the sub categories have the part numbers. 
 

Working on them is fairly straight forward, get yourself a Workshop manual and go look at Britannica Restorations YouTube videos. 
 

 

[uninformed]

@Daan the whole spacer set up is clear as mud hey lol. I did a little googling and it’s not just one size spacer fits all. Think like shims, different available sizes to give the desired end result (zero end float) for the production variations in hubs. If you don’t have a spacer or destroy one, it’s seems you start with the biggest (master) spacer, install, check end float and then reference the WSM to see what size/colour coded spacer you need. Not convenient by any means.

I got a chance to dip in my parts bin to grab a photo to show the difference between early and later wheel bearing spacing.

[Mossberg]

6 hours ago, uninformed said:

Let’s assume your front axle is off a Land Rover (going by your separate drive flange) and not a D1. Your swivel ball and swivel housing are specific to the Railko bush type. These were up to ~1994 (The 300Tdi was the basic change over, but the last of the 200Tdi got rear discs and there was a odd 32 spline long stub shaft CV for a year or 2)

The best way to be sure is to disassemble and inspect your parts. 

If you go to the retroconda website that @western linked, the sub categories have the part numbers. 
 

Working on them is fairly straight forward, get yourself a Workshop manual and go look at Britannica Restorations YouTube videos. 
 

 

Many thanks Uninformed, you obviously have a great deal of knowledge and I appreciate the help given by you, western, etc. 

I was hoping for someone to give me a part number so I could get it on order, but you have highlighted that it is not quite that simple. Whilst this does not help me get the part on order, at least it has stopped me getting the wrong part on order which is more important. 

I have been watching the Britanica and Trailer fitters videos and they are very helpful. It is a little difficult for me to relate some of the work due to my lack of experience with spanners, but I am hoping, with a bit of hands on time, things will become clearer as I go along.

I have a Haynes and a workshop manual on my phone but unfortunately my PC is on the blink as I usually try to print off the relevant pages.

I will update the trials and tribulations as I go along.

Thanks again. 

Mick 

[soutie]

Mick, is there anybody local who can help you? I started with zero confidence and through help from people I met on the forum did this job together as one of my first tasks on my 110. From then on it has been a downward slippery slope as I am now rebuilding her chassis up.

[uninformed]

Id say I have a good amount of knowledge but am still always learning. For me as a visual learner, #1 Hands on , #2 pictures and 3rd written text. Just go slow, be as observant as possible (it helps me I have a little OCD), put bolts (including washers, SHIMS etc ) back in holes as soon as possible in disassembled parts. Or organise in tubs or bags. SHIMS can be VERY thin so keep an eye out. (shims will be under the top swivel pin and on the end of the CV stub shaft, keep them specific to their matching bits)

If you are thinking about replacing your swivel balls, I would advise going Genuine, if they are too expensive, look for good condition second hand. The genuine are Forged and good quality steel, some of the AM have been absolute junk and failed! Something I do not want! We don't get the road salt etc you do, and whenever I have got bits of LRs I keep all HT bolts, and good components (I have 4 sets of factory swivel balls in excellent condition  )

Going by your pics showing the condition of your assembly, finding the axle serial number may be impossible. ITs usually on the long (passenger) side of housing above the centreline. The parts manual uses these as stop/start points for change in parts.

 

Here are a couple of screenshots for you.

 

[Mossberg]

29 minutes ago, soutie said:

Mick, is there anybody local who can help you? I started with zero confidence and through help from people I met on the forum did this job together as one of my first tasks on my 110. From then on it has been a downward slippery slope as I am now rebuilding her chassis up.

Hi Soutie,  I do have someone I can call on, but I don't want to use up all my favours. If I have issues I can give him a call. Hopefully I would like to get involved in some local groups and through that local enthusiasts that are ready to help. I can then return favours and learn as I do so.

[Mossberg]

32 minutes ago, uninformed said:

Id say I have a good amount of knowledge but am still always learning. For me as a visual learner, #1 Hands on , #2 pictures and 3rd written text. Just go slow, be as observant as possible (it helps me I have a little OCD), put bolts (including washers, SHIMS etc ) back in holes as soon as possible in disassembled parts. Or organise in tubs or bags. SHIMS can be VERY thin so keep an eye out. (shims will be under the top swivel pin and on the end of the CV stub shaft, keep them specific to their matching bits)

If you are thinking about replacing your swivel balls, I would advise going Genuine, if they are too expensive, look for good condition second hand. The genuine are Forged and good quality steel, some of the AM have been absolute junk and failed! Something I do not want! We don't get the road salt etc you do, and whenever I have got bits of LRs I keep all HT bolts, and good components (I have 4 sets of factory swivel balls in excellent condition  )

Going by your pics showing the condition of your assembly, finding the axle serial number may be impossible. ITs usually on the long (passenger) side of housing above the centreline. The parts manual uses these as stop/start points for change in parts.

 

Here are a couple of screenshots for you.

 

Many thanks again.

I am trying to put things in bags and lable them as I go. Great comment about putting bolts back as you go along, it will save on bags and stop me misplacing them.

I will look at genuine swivel balls, but unfortunately I think cost may determine my choice.  I did ask at the suppliers about replacing the seals in the kit for genuine and they said they could do but they have never had an issue themselves (they have a workshop on site).

[uninformed]

18 minutes ago, Mossberg said:

Many thanks again.

I am trying to put things in bags and lable them as I go. Great comment about putting bolts back as you go along, it will save on bags and stop me misplacing them.

I will look at genuine swivel balls, but unfortunately I think cost may determine my choice.  I did ask at the suppliers about replacing the seals in the kit for genuine and they said they could do but they have never had an issue themselves (they have a workshop on site).

There are a few things in our LRs we can buy that are genuine without buying LR branded. Timken bearings and Corteco seals are two of them

[reb78]

I got Britpart teflon coated swivel balls about 12 (maybe more) years ago for my 110. I chucked the seals and bearings (whatever came as part of the kit and was unbranded) and got timken bearings and corteco seals for fitting. 

These are the only britpart parts on my 110 but they are about the only BP product that gets good reviews  

I kept the old swivels in case I could get them rechromed but the EU have made that difficult I beleive!

Edited February 5, 2022 by reb78

[Sigi_H]

@uninformed What a great comparison. Thanks for the picture

 

[Mossberg]

So, my first attempt at a brake pipe. Could you guys have a look and give me your thoughts before I remake (if required) and then attempt the other side.

I have shown on full lock.

Many thanks. 

Mick

[Stellaghost]

That looks spot on, on the first picture the bend is quite tight, as long as it doesn't flatten out too much it will be fine( you can buy brake pipe benders if you need to ) looking good regards Stephen

[Mo Murphy]

Go Mick ! Good first attempt.

Mo

[Mossberg]

Thanks guys, that's encouraging.  However, I decided to make some blank ends for putting on the pipe to cap it off when the end will be open. On close inspection the flare is slightly off centre. My lack of experience means I cannot say if this is within tolerance- what do you think?

Obviously with it being brakes I don't want to have pipes that are not going to be fully affective!!

[Bowie69]

Good effort, and that flare will be fine.

[Mossberg]

Fantastic,  thanks for that. I will do the other side now. 

[Snagger]

Those pipes all look good, but the U bend in the first shot is a bit tight, like Stephen said.  Use a curved item as a former to bend the pipe around to get a consistent curve that will prevent a fold and pinching.  I found a C-cell battery is about as tight as I could bend copper-nickel pipe without risk of it pinching.