Chassis swap

[Benji55]

Hi. New member here, thanks admin for accepting me. I’m about to embark on switching the chassis on my 1986 defender 90. The galvanised chassis is due early next week but I can’t decide whether to dismantle the body or try and remove whole. I understand it can be difficult to align the body on refitting if dismantled but removing as a whole without a workshop is scary. I’ve seen excellent write-ups on how people have removed as a whole. Has anyone any experience who can offer any advice? 
thanks in advance

[Stellaghost]

1 hour ago, Benji55 said:

Hi. New member here, thanks admin for accepting me. I’m about to embark on switching the chassis on my 1986 defender 90. The galvanised chassis is due early next week but I can’t decide whether to dismantle the body or try and remove whole. I understand it can be difficult to align the body on refitting if dismantled but removing as a whole without a workshop is scary. I’ve seen excellent write-ups on how people have removed as a whole. Has anyone any experience who can offer any advice? 
thanks in advance

First off welcome to the forum

@miketomcat did this outside with no workshop, think he used barrels and high lift Jack's so very doable, his thread is on the forum somewhere regards Stephen

[western]

Have a look at my chassis change post about the job on my 110CSW 8 years ago,  we lifted the body as 1 piece &  rolled chassis out &  in. 

 

[miketomcat]

Yes I did lift the body off in one on my front garden. I did a chassis swap with the help of fridgefreezer over a long weekend then spent the following week welding up sills and C posts, plus all the bolts not done when we dumped the body back on the new chassis. I lifted it using and engine crane through the back door picking up on the rear seat belt mounts and two hi lifts either side of the bulkhead.

Mike

[FridgeFreezer]

Mike's was done in one, previous time we split it in chunks:

 

[Benji55]

2 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

First off welcome to the forum

@miketomcat did this outside with no workshop, think he used barrels and high lift Jack's so very doable, his thread is on the forum somewhere regards Stephen

Hi Stephen, I will look for that thread. I’m curious how many addition hours dismantling would add. When I look at the truck I think it’s not much extra but have read it can be a nightmare to line everything back up. 
Thanks also for the welcome. I’ve often looked at this group, it’s great to be participating  

 

[Benji55]

2 hours ago, western said:

Have a look at my chassis change post about the job on my 110CSW 8 years ago,  we lifted the body as 1 piece &  rolled chassis out &  in. 

 

Thanks for the reply that’s very helpful. I appreciate every project is different but how many hours would you guess dismantling the body or least rear tub and front wings, would add to the project?

thanks

[Benji55]

44 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

Yes I did lift the body off in one on my front garden. I did a chassis swap with the help of fridgefreezer over a long weekend then spent the following week welding up sills and C posts, plus all the bolts not done when we dumped the body back on the new chassis. I lifted it using and engine crane through the back door picking up on the rear seat belt mounts and two hi lifts either side of the bulkhead.

Mike

Thanks Mike. That’s reassuring as I was planning to utilise my engine hoist to lift the body the. Scaffold poles and props to support it. 
The main swap over a long weekend is very impressive even for someone with all your knowledge. 
thanks

Ben

[Retroanaconda]

The main issue with dismantling is not the lining things up or the time it takes really, or even the extra space needed to store everything. It is the fact that you will find so much more that needs changing/fixing that you would anticipate. This adds to both the time and the cost. It is however the way to do it ‘properly’ as it were if you do have issues with corrosion in the body etc. as most older Defenders do.

If time/space is limited and you do not have serious issues with corrosion on the bodywork then lifting in one piece is a good plan. You may still have to realign doors etc. though as things can shift when it’s lifted off and back on. This also depends on the chassis you are using, some of the aftermarket ones can require some tweaks to mounts etc. to line up.

[miketomcat]

As retro quite rightly points out taking it apart will allow you to do it properly and fix any little niggles.

I had two weeks to do ours as it's my wife's daily. The evenings of the first week I let everything go. Fridge came to help me with the lift and swap over a bank holiday weekend. By Sunday night the engine, axles were swapped and bolted down and the body was back on. The evenings of the second week I lined the body up and shimmed were required. Sorted wiring etc and got it running. Once it was all sat correctly I removed the rear second row floor replaced the C pillars and part of the sill. Then fitted a replacement under seat panel. I had limited time and a very limited budget, the bulkhead could do with replacing or quite a lot of welding now but left that at the time. I did mine in spring 2020 outside between full lock downs so there wasn't a lot else to do at the time. 

Mike

[Giles]

And... as you can see from Miketomcat's photo, above, you hardly need to raise the back end at all, only a tiny bit. It's the front shock towers that are the high point for rolling the chassis in and out... Go for it...

[Benji55]

Thanks again that’s really helpful. 2 weeks is very impressive. 
Great photo Mike, you really did remove the body in 1 piece. I imagined removing the front wings, all doors, seats etc leaving just bulkhead, floor, tub, sides and roof intact. 

[Retroanaconda]

Mine was the same when I used the body off method, all I removed was the grille and bonnet. I should have said I’ve done mine twice and have used both methods.

First was a quick and dirty chassis replacement in 2018 (thread here) - I lifted the body in one that time as I needed the car back on the road quickly. It bought me a few more years.

Then last year I rebuilt the car properly with new or repaired panels, new paint etc. as documented in this thread.

[reb78]

I'm about to start stripping the body on mine. Its being taken down to components and they will all be resprayed. Its getting new doors and a new bulkhead at the same time so I figured this was the best way to get a good finish. 

[FridgeFreezer]

11 hours ago, Benji55 said:

how many hours would you guess dismantling the body or least rear tub and front wings, would add to the project

I'd say depending on condition a huge amount because as others have said, you'll find loads of hidden gremlins that need work or replacement - corroded metal that needs repair or at least treat & paint, crusty fasteners that will be destroyed in removal, etc.

It can easily turn into a major restoration project instead of juggling a few large lumps around.

From helping Mike with his I'd say you really need some good sturdy stands that allow you to get the body jacked quite high (the photo Mike posted was it just about scraping under the wings), and we had a lot of jiggery pokery with Hi-lift jacks & engine cranes to get it that far.

If you can buy new parts & fixings for various critical items you can save a lot of time - EG running all new brake lines on the new chassis in preparation, buying new mounting nuts & bolts for everything that has to come undone so you can just cut any stubborn old bolts off, having freshly bushed hockey sticks & trailing arms & fasteners, maybe run a fresh rear wiring loom through the new chassis rather than try to extract & re-insert the crusty old one, perhaps new fuel lines, etc. etc. - all stuff that make the actual time to swap over shorter, with the bonus it's a load of stuff that's way easier to do on a bare new chassis than laying under a fully built Land Rover.

[Benji55]

45 minutes ago, reb78 said:

I'm about to start stripping the body on mine. Its being taken down to components and they will all be resprayed. Its getting new doors and a new bulkhead at the same time so I figured this was the best way to get a good finish. 

Good luck with yours. What condition is yours in and have you much experience with this type of project? Also how long do you anticipate the project to take?
 

 

[Benji55]

3 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'd say depending on condition a huge amount because as others have said, you'll find loads of hidden gremlins that need work or replacement - corroded metal that needs repair or at least treat & paint, crusty fasteners that will be destroyed in removal, etc.

It can easily turn into a major restoration project instead of juggling a few large lumps around.

From helping Mike with his I'd say you really need some good sturdy stands that allow you to get the body jacked quite high (the photo Mike posted was it just about scraping under the wings), and we had a lot of jiggery pokery with Hi-lift jacks & engine cranes to get it that far.

If you can buy new parts & fixings for various critical items you can save a lot of time - EG running all new brake lines on the new chassis in preparation, buying new mounting nuts & bolts for everything that has to come undone so you can just cut any stubborn old bolts off, having freshly bushed hockey sticks & trailing arms & fasteners, maybe run a fresh rear wiring loom through the new chassis rather than try to extract & re-insert the crusty old one, perhaps new fuel lines, etc. etc. - all stuff that make the actual time to swap over shorter, with the bonus it's a load of stuff that's way easier to do on a bare new chassis than laying under a fully built Land Rover.

That’s really helpful, thank you. I’ve ordered the chassis bolt kit with the chassis, the flexible brake hoses, galvanised front suspension cone kits to all come with the chassis. Was planning to change the fuel tank, pipes and sender as that very rusted. 
 

I like the idea of rear wiring loom, mines been butchered by previous owners over the years if anyone can recommend  where to order one. 
 

sorry to ask so many questions but another one was about bushes. I planed your replace them all as a kit but some people swear by poly bushes some say avoid them and stick to original rubber. 
 

thanks

[Anderzander]

29 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'd say depending on condition a huge amount because as others have said, you'll find loads of hidden gremlins that need work or replacement - corroded metal that needs repair or at least treat & paint, crusty fasteners that will be destroyed in removal, etc.

It can easily turn into a major restoration project instead of juggling a few large lumps around.

From helping Mike with his I'd say you really need some good sturdy stands that allow you to get the body jacked quite high (the photo Mike posted was it just about scraping under the wings), and we had a lot of jiggery pokery with Hi-lift jacks & engine cranes to get it that far.

If you can buy new parts & fixings for various critical items you can save a lot of time - EG running all new brake lines on the new chassis in preparation, buying new mounting nuts & bolts for everything that has to come undone so you can just cut any stubborn old bolts off, having freshly bushed hockey sticks & trailing arms & fasteners, maybe run a fresh rear wiring loom through the new chassis rather than try to extract & re-insert the crusty old one, perhaps new fuel lines, etc. etc. - all stuff that make the actual time to swap over shorter, with the bonus it's a load of stuff that's way easier to do on a bare new chassis than laying under a fully built Land Rover.

This is great advice.

I was fortunate to have access to a 2 post lift for my 90 - and help. Neither are essential both make a huge difference to how much time it takes.

We took the front wings off, which on a Td5 just seems to make it easier. That, as with anything you take off, did uncover some more work to do - I. This case welding was needed on the bulkhead.

Mission creep is inevitable - finding more things wrong and wanting to do more - what comes with that is more time and more money.
 

So I think it’s important to be clear in setting some boundaries. Probably most of these stalled rebuild projects that get sold or abandoned are to do with it needing more time or money than they had appetite for.

In short you’ll end up doing way more, and spending more, than you plan - so be careful of that and factor that into the boundaries you set. 

[Mo Murphy]

On mine (it was owned by a friend at that time before I bought all the bits) the body was so rotten it wouldn't have survived being lifted off in one piece ! The tub was white powder, the bulkhead wasn't really attached to anything and the lower halves of the doors were just holey aluminium skins 🤣

Mo

[miketomcat]

Like anderzander says clear boundary's mine was change the chassis, C pillars and front section of the rear floor. In the quickest time possible I had all the parts ready to go and ignored anything that wasn't safety critical or I'd be stupid not to.

As for bushes if you have a press go gen if not polybush or superpro don't buy cheap bushes!

Mike

[oneandtwo]

Many years ago I did my old 300tdi 90 in two days with a two post lift, it was in very good condition which made it a quick swap. My Puma 90 has been two years and counting as I have lost interest in it!!

[Peaklander]

I swapped my 110 chassis on the drive, in a one piece body lift. I really would have liked to dismantle but I didn’t have time and space.

I took my time and did things like new clutch and added auxiliary wiring to the rear, plus new fuel lines. The list is a long as you want it to be.

A year later I replaced the footwells and an A post. Maybe it would have been better dismantled.  

[cackshifter]

If doing just body off, it's worth noting bits of body that are hard to get to with the body on, and maybe give them some TLC while you can, but things always take more time and money than you think. Thinking things like 110 csw cross member.

[Benji55]

13 hours ago, oneandtwo said:

Many years ago I did my old 300tdi 90 in two days with a two post lift, it was in very good condition which made it a quick swap. My Puma 90 has been two years and counting as I have lost interest in it!!

2 days is very impressive even for a good condition landy. Two years and counting for your puma? 

[Benji55]

10 hours ago, Peaklander said:

I swapped my 110 chassis on the drive, in a one piece body lift. I really would have liked to dismantle but I didn’t have time and space.

I took my time and did things like new clutch and added auxiliary wiring to the rear, plus new fuel lines. The list is a long as you want it to be.

A year later I replaced the footwells and an A post. Maybe it would have been better dismantled.  

That’s very professional looking scaffolding structure, did you assemble it?  
i would like to do as much as possible, brake lines, bushes, clutch, fuel tank (inc lines, sender etc) and any safety related repairs that become evident but I also have limited time with work and family commitments so need to be realistic.