"Chinese" versions of Webasto that heat the coolant charge

[Troll Hunter]

As in the title.  I see many adverts and threads in this forum that address the air heating variety of Chinese "parking heaters", and these are usually much cheaper than European models, but having searched extensively I cannot find any units that heat and circulate the coolant.  Do These exist in the Chinese market?

Mike

[Arjan]

Yes, they "exist"

However, more and more countries are having them confiscated at importation as several seem not to comply.

There is, for what isn't, a FB page : THE CHINESE DIESEL AIR HEATER GROUP UK

I use original Webasto / Ebensprächer

[FridgeFreezer]

I've seen people using cheap EGR coolers from eBay to heat coolant from the exhaust gas of the heaters, which I thought was very cunning.

That said, the Webasto Thermo-Top heaters have never been expensive, usually £100-£150 2nd hand... I've got several knocking around that I'm no longer using in fact.

[Anderzander]

If you look on AliExpress there are loads of them.

I keep thinking of these - but what put me off was them needed to switch the heating fan on to work as a heater without the engine running. 

[FridgeFreezer]

4 hours ago, Anderzander said:

I keep thinking of these - but what put me off was them needed to switch the heating fan on to work as a heater without the engine running. 

Yeah, they do make it a 2-stage problem although it's possible to wire in a diode so they can make the vehicle heater fan run it's a bit of a faff, and most of us would rather just have warm air blowing in the cab than heat up 150kg of stone-cold engine block first.

The way they're fitted in the Freelanders and presumably other vehicles is they're on the heater matrix side of the coolant circuit so the hot water hits the matrix "first" for maximum benefit, but they're still a lot slower than direct air heater.

If I was living somewhere very cold or doing an arctic trip I might fit one as a block pre-heater but for cabin warmth the air ones are king.

Unless you're TSD and have an air heater, water heater and a ceramic PTC heater just in case minus 20 outside, t-shirt and shorts in the cab!

[Gazzar]

I'm with tsd on this. Cold is not fun.

[Snagger]

I did see those water heating cab-heaters advertised somewhere after hearing about them on the BritRest videos.  Simpler to fit and more compact than having a Thermotop and Watertop side by side.  Cheap, too.  Their main flaw was having to run the cabin heat in order to heat the water, being a shared heat exchanger.  I watched a video and it heated the water surprisingly quickly, though I don’t know if they are as fast as the Webasto coolant heater types.  I imagine they use a lot more fuel than the Webasto type for the same water rise because of the air also being heated, but I think it could be a more practical heater for most users.  I may well fit one in the future - I had been considering both types of independent heaters previously, but both have significant pros and cons while this has more benefits and less cons, if it is safe.

[Troll Hunter]

Many thanks for your replies. I had searched on eBay, with little success, but had not considered AliExpress.  Coolant heaters are relatively rare out here but air heaters are quite common.  My LR is parked in the open and my idea for a coolant heater is to have a warmed engine before starting it, more to reduce cold engine wear than to improve cabin comfort.  We've just had ten days or so of -18C so improved cabin heat would also be very welcome.

Thanks for your warnings about many look-alikes not being approved.  I'll very carefully review details of any heater I'm tempted to buy.

Mike

[FridgeFreezer]

Mike - a scout around breakers and eBay etc. might turn up some coolant heaters, they're fitted as standard to a few luxury models and as "winter pack" options on a lot more across the premium brands - I know Audi, LR and maybe Volvo used them, just be sure you're getting one that isn't purely CANbus/K-Line controlled and make sure you get the fuel pump with it.

They're almost always Webasto Thermo-Top something or other, and usually cheaper than the Eberspacher air heaters because they're less sought after by campers, boaters, etc.

[Arjan]

My DII has a Webasto engine heater fitted ex factory (for certain regions this is necessary to be legal in "green zones") and the difference is just amazing.

Out here, it does get seriously cold from time to time (and I travel to some seriously cold places..) and it was one of things to make me go for this vehicle.

Start the Td5, leave it at tick over and withing 3-5 mins. the windows are clean and engine around 40-45 C.

Next step is to put in some extra stuff to remotely start the Webasto before the engine is started...

The OneTen with the Mazda will get one, too, as they are $#^#^to start in the cold.

I would buy a brand engine heater with back up and spares..

 

 

[elbekko]

I used a plug-in coolant heater I got from Arjan for a few years. Once it worked, it was nice. The main issue is extra plumbing.

This one still tickles my fancy: https://www.roversnorth.com/parts/pla688_engine_block_heater_v8_for_range_rover_discovery

No clue how well it works, but there's no extra plumbing, and it actually heats the water in the engine.

Both do F all when driving though, and the external heater I had was actually worse when driving because it's a big chunk of ally that's not behind a thermostat, so would cool the coolant down while driving...

[Anderzander]

5 hours ago, elbekko said:

This one still tickles my fancy: https://www.roversnorth.com/parts/pla688_engine_block_heater_v8_for_range_rover_discovery

 

I’ve seen reviews of those from folk in Canada and they work well by their accounts. 

[Anderzander]

20 hours ago, Arjan said:

I would buy a brand engine heater with back up and spares..

I’m wavering in that - better quality Chinese stuff is emerging, and there are tons of spares, and an ever growing community of folk who know them inside out. 

[Snagger]

8 hours ago, elbekko said:

I used a plug-in coolant heater I got from Arjan for a few years. Once it worked, it was nice. The main issue is extra plumbing.

This one still tickles my fancy: https://www.roversnorth.com/parts/pla688_engine_block_heater_v8_for_range_rover_discovery

No clue how well it works, but there's no extra plumbing, and it actually heats the water in the engine.

Both do F all when driving though, and the external heater I had was actually worse when driving because it's a big chunk of ally that's not behind a thermostat, so would cool the coolant down while driving...

They replace a core plug in the block.  Unfortunately, they are 110V, so useless outside of North America.  Shame, as they should be more reliable and much neater than the Kenlowe types.

[FridgeFreezer]

21 hours ago, Anderzander said:

I’m wavering in that - better quality Chinese stuff is emerging, and there are tons of spares, and an ever growing community of folk who know them inside out. 

My take is I'll happily use a Chinese one for a vehicle I'm not sleeping in, but sticking to Webasto/Eberspacher for the night heater as I don't want to wake up on fire or dead from CO poisoning.

[Troll Hunter]

On 12/31/2022 at 9:58 AM, Snagger said:

They replace a core plug in the block.  Unfortunately, they are 110V, so useless outside of North America.  Shame, as they should be more reliable and much neater than the Kenlowe types.

You could consider running two in series, and at their cost it's not prohibitive.

Mike

[landroversforever]

8 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

My take is I'll happily use a Chinese one for a vehicle I'm not sleeping in, but sticking to Webasto/Eberspacher for the night heater as I don't want to wake up on fire or dead from CO poisoning.

Whilst I agree…. I wouldn’t sleep with either branded or Chinese without a CO alarm. 

[Snagger]

5 hours ago, Troll Hunter said:

You could consider running two in series, and at their cost it's not prohibitive.

Mike

I considered that, but they won’t fit, at least not in the side of a Tdi - the three core plugs don’t all have the same internal clearance from the cylinders; the heater clears the cylinders in the middle plug position, but apparently doesn’t on the other two.  If anyone knows differently, then great - as you said, they aren’t that expensive and two in series may work (I know that doubling the resistance in a DC circuit of doubled voltage would, but I’d want confirmation that doubled impedance in an AC circuit does the same, as AC is a bit whacky compared to DC).

[geoffbeaumont]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:58 PM, Snagger said:

They replace a core plug in the block.  Unfortunately, they are 110V, so useless outside of North America.  Shame, as they should be more reliable and much neater than the Kenlowe types.

Could always run it off a 110V portable transformer like tradesmen use for 110V power tools. Bit bulky if you travel with it, but fine if you only use it at home.

[FridgeFreezer]

Must be some other/similar block heaters out there used by Europeans, I remember Sweden & Norway had hookups in some car parks on every space for bock/frost heaters.

[David Sparkes]

Yes, I'd thought of using a 'building site' yellow 240 to 110 volt transformer. I have done it in the past, but the big snag I found with a block heater is the lack of circulation. For any coolant heater to be fully effective there has to be circulation pump. The only possible alternative is to run a low power heater all the time, from when the vehicle arrives home with a fully warmed engine to when it's driven away with a block that is just off the chill. If the heater is powerful enough to keep the coolant warmer than that the coolant around the element will just boil.
There must be circulation, which is why the pumped Kenlowe could manage with a 3kW element. Just a pity the pump was pants, sticking while not in use during the summer, and not powerful enough to 'unstick' when powered up the next winter.

Regards.

[elbekko]

9 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Must be some other/similar block heaters out there used by Europeans, I remember Sweden & Norway had hookups in some car parks on every space for bock/frost heaters.

https://www.biltema.se/bil---mc/biltillbehor/vinterprodukter/motorvarmare/

None of them pumped, though. But pretty low profile.

9 hours ago, David Sparkes said:

Just a pity the pump was pants, sticking while not in use during the summer, and not powerful enough to 'unstick' when powered up the next winter.

Mostly due to corrosion from what I've found. Once cleaned up I had no issues with it.

[Snagger]

I have one of the older rectangular Kenlowe, and that sticks all the time.  I opened it up to free the impeller several times, but it’d stick again.  I did read Elbekko’s thread on stripping it and cleaning it up, and with a 50/50 water-glycol solution, it should stay rust free in the future, but I’m not fond of the space it takes and the extra plumbing.

I did search for 230v block heaters after I saw one of Mike’s BritRest videos on them - they are such a neat so,Union, but I can see why a pump helps.  I think they are probably less powerful than the Kenlowe to avoid boiling.  The coolant should circulate naturally without a pump once the whole system is unfrozen (it shouldn’t freeze anyway, if a sensible concentration of antifreeze is used).

[Snagger]

13 hours ago, geoffbeaumont said:

Could always run it off a 110V portable transformer like tradesmen use for 110V power tools. Bit bulky if you travel with it, but fine if you only use it at home.

I have one of those for my impact wrench.  They are far too cumbersome just for a block heater - the slightly cumbersome Kenlowe is a better option!

[Bowie69]

6 minutes ago, Snagger said:

I have one of those for my impact wrench.  They are far too cumbersome just for a block heater

Why not just have the transformer under the bench somewhere, and an extension lead to the truck?