FridgeFreezer Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Or perhaps some orange squash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 nice cuppa tea anyone? Yep - any chance of some toast and marmalade too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300bhp/ton Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Or perhaps some orange squash? umm think I'll go a nice refreshing class of elderflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSi110 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I think you've just answered the question there. Cars, complex machinery etc all share similarities. They're far harder to make truly individual models which appeal to the same customers. Things like handbrake mechanisms are far less complex and have fewer parts. There is more scope to make a different product, like Simon did with the X-Brake. Why couldn't Scorpion engineer something equally as individual and as affordable? They must have greater resource than Simon, surely? The same can be said for other products too. That's why I use a Dyson at home. Personally, I'm not bothered what anyone does, but I like the way there are so many like-minded people sharing a common dislike for one company; whether their views are ethics, customer service or the prices. There are other companies I dislike too. Their ethics, prices and service are questionable, in my view as well. This isn't a vendetta; merely a common belief by a number of individuals. I'd also wager that there are just as many supporters of Scorpions product on this forum. It's an individuals choice and I, for one, respect them for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Ethics or good business sense??? you probably need to draw line in the sand here .................do you want to spend your money with , 1. An entrepreneurial business based on innovation, R&D, and good business practice with reason margins that reflect the true product value and return an acceptable net profit. 2. An entrepreneurial business based on sharp business practice that uses high margins on products of dubious origins. Sharp practice also tends to produce high net profit ............ but only for a limited life span. The above examples tend to typify the SME market in this country today.......... Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I think you might be over-estimating the protection a patent offers!In any case a patent will only stand up if you have the resources to defend it. There are no "no win no fee" solicitors for IPR disputes! I know of one company who developed a device that many of us own who patented it worldwide. It was copied and they spent almost $100k defending it. They lost - because the copy was a different colour and it was ruled that this was a significant innovation (made it less of a trip hazard). It may be that they did not draft the original patent sufficiently well - or it may be that if you put your mind to it you can wriggle out of most patents with a few small or cosmetic changes. It costs roughly £4000 for a UK patent. Considering the above you have to be very sure the market is big enough to get your money back - and in the 4x4 world there are few products, no matter how innovative that are. I have taken out a few European Design Registrations and registered the odd trade mark which protect the appearance of a product rather than its mechanism. I believe this offers better protection in a lot of cases and only costs a few hundred quid. Scorpion are not alone in this, but the MO of the company is to buy a few of an item off a manufacturer and see how fast it sells. At the same time, investigate whether it can be manufactured more cheaply. If it passes on both counts, they will continue to sell the original for a cross-over period gradually moving over to their copy. That way, the original manufacturer is unaware and as Steve said Scorpion benefit directly from their marketing. Also the final order to the manufacturer will be fairly big. They will withold payment for as long as they can on this. The supplier does not want to rock the boat too much in case they loose the money even if they do realise what is happening. Most of what they sell is copied off other companies or individuals. The things that are not (ARB's & Ashcroft drives for example) are just too specialist and difficult to manufacture to bother with for the sales volume. Others do not have the sales volume or profit margin to make it worthwhile. You can take a hard nosed "business" attitude and say if they have not protected themselves they deserve it - but I personally do not believe it is ethical. I think "Iron Goat" who make plastic defender dash inserts and the chap who makes the gas-strut bonnet stays should watch out! But I suspect the die is already cast. Si P.S. This way, they can also pass on warranty claims to the original manufacturer - who until they find out what is happening, blindly honours them. "I bought this at a show, there were no instructions, it's broken and I want a new one" kind of thing. Si, I agree with your views, a friend of mine made a product that he applied US, UK and european patents to. Later he found a major US manufacturer copying his product exactly and using his statements around it's benifits. Trouble was he was a small company and whilst he could afford to fight in the UK and maybe Europe it was far to costly to win in the US. This left hin in a position where his loyal supporters would by from him and tell their mates, the rest bought the US product! Sound familiar? As for the Land-Rover Jeep argument, the whole manufacturing policy for Post War Japan was based on buy one copy it sell lots. First Kawasaki -BSA A5 / A10 copy, IIRC some early Jeep axle parts will fit a Suzuki 4x4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I seriously doubt that there are that many here or elsewhere who are "Scorpian Fans" Colon does what he does, and doesn't give a fig, he makes his money, and sails close to the line, it is a choice he makes. What he did to Si has been done many times before, and will be doen to others many times in the future, what disgusted so many was the way he did it, and with a smile and a handshake as he stuck the knife in. Business is tough and all that, but reputations do count for a hell of a lot in the long term, Ashcrofts are an example of a business at the other end of the spectrum - you'll find it hard to find anyone who doesn't speak highly of them. Scorpian don't care, its just a business in for the maximum gain, damaging others, poor reputaion poor products attitude and arrogance means nothing - its ONLY about money and as much as they can make while the sun shines. People who have used them often stop, they buy whatever they buy and have a problem and then discover for themselves whats what, others do hear by word of mouth, I myself have delat with them pre the Si R X-Eng disgrace, but found them to be a dreadfull bunch to deal with, yes they got some of my money but never ever again. I chose who gets my money, and it tends to be compnaies who GAF about their products and customers, I have an X Brake I have ashcrofts shafts Diffs CW&P and other bits - IF - and I stress IF I ever have a problem with any other their products I KNOW the sort of conversation I would have with Si or Dave, and it would be a very different one to Scrapions conversation I had a problem with the few bits I bought. Sorpian work on the flooding-the-market-with-adverts-to-newbies-and those who don't know and can extract money from but over time the word does get about on non ethical companies who couldn't give a F about customer service or quality issues. Theres a HUGE amount of bad feeling in the 4x4 world towards them, but they carry on, 300s Q is valid as he doesn't know either 1st hand or history wise re them, who knows maybe they would treat him properly ? Whatever, a compnay that has the customer 1st philospohy will always gain referral business - and thats the best you can get, customer loyalty and belief counts for the long term for a strong reputable business, and for those who stand out there are 100's that don't - and thats their loss and the outstnading compnaies gain... Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy boy Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 OK, Jeep and S1: Similar but not the same. X-Eng X-Brake and the "new" Scrapiron disc handbrake: It's the sodding same! Actually the disc on the right does look like an improvement over the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Labouring at a point like this one so early in ones forum career may harm your defence if you later rely on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Actually the disc on the right does look like an improvement over the left. ...until the grooves fill with mud and act as grinding paste for the pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300bhp/ton Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Labouring at a point like this one so early in ones forum career may harm your defence if you later rely on it. My opinion is my own and as I haven't acttacked anyone, been rude or as far as I know broken any forum rules then on a public forum on a public domain on the internet I should be able to freely voice my opion without predjudice. I have been active on several threads and topics since joing this forum and even in this I started by asking why the hate on Scorpion Racing? And aside from claims of poor customer service it appears the biggest thing is many people simply having a personal bias and dislike over the companies business practices and nothing more. But it does appear to be very one sided with 2nd, 3rd and 25ht hand information being thrown about as though it is solid fact and happened to them. And it is comments like yours which are trying to label me as the bad guy are what really cause many problems, in fact you have been as underhand and decietful as the claims against Scorpion Racing yet worse becuase for a quick quib you have attacked someone who in realty has done nothing wrong. And if you are really so bothered, show me ONE single place where I have defended what happened? All I have done is simply state that it is nothing untoward in the world of making money and running busiensses. As for my own experience, well I have spoken to Scorpion Racing several times on the phone over the years and they have for the most part proven very helpful. I also know several people who have dealt with them with no problem at all. Have I actually bought anything from them? No. I think their pricing for the most part is overly optomistic and boarders on comical and I don't like how they don't include the price on any adverts or their website. They also don't really sell anything I particulary want to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy boy Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 ...until the grooves fill with mud and act as grinding paste for the pads Didn't mean the grooves, meant the fact it is a machined disc. And was being a tad facetious. Thread about grooved discs off road anybody????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Hobnob anyone? They're the chocolate ones and everything!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Labouring at a point like this one so early in ones forum career may harm your defence if you later rely on it. I was trying to think of a way to say that as neatly as you just did but you beat me to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Hobnob anyone? They're the chocolate ones and everything!! Can you e-mail me one? I'll post you a nice cup of tea in return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 All I have done is simply state that it is nothing untoward in the world of making money and running busiensses. I do not agree but there again we all have different standards. Anyway, I'll just sit back and continue to watch this thread with my mod / admin hat set at a jaunty angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Can you e-mail me one? I'll post you a nice cup of tea in return I tried, I now have a very crumby CD drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Dear Mr 300bhp/ton, if that is your real name? I shall refer to you as Colin for the benefit of giving someone a proper name. The little detail you seem to be missing is the history relating to Scorpion Racing, this forum and certain members of this forum. May I suggest you do some revision on the subject. 100 posts in less than two weeks is impressive Colin, do you have a job? I supose you could be in IT, they are on here all the time. Regards, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 As you are no doubt aware, there's a lot of bad feeling about this company. You have expressed your opinion, and that's fine. It must be obvious to you that no-one is going to be swayed by your reasoning, so at this point in the thread you must have realised that you are wasting your time. Have you read the original thread concerning (in this instance) the matter between X-Eng and Scorpion racing? They were vilified on most of the major Land Rover websites, so although you have your own opinion of the company, we also have ours and it's different, that's all. Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Didn't mean the grooves, meant the fact it is a machined disc.And was being a tad facetious. Thread about grooved discs off road anybody????? A good way to eat brake pads Tim? Off road give me a plain disk any day! How's the truck going BTW? When's the finish date? 300, I can see the point you're trying to make and, yes, all companies want to make a healthy profit. However, the "rape and pillage" approach that this company employs isn't smart in what's a small market – a cat only has 9 lives. It’s a free country but, my advice to potential customers is 'Caveat Emptor' and to potential suppliers is keep well away! I know of people who've been happy with them but they seem to be in a minority. As other's have said, the law is an ass. The likelihood of any legal action like this is it'll be long and drawn out with little chance of receiving any sort of compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I'd just like to know if the hob-nobs are dark choccy or milk choccy? If its the dark choccy ones, could someone pass the packet over this way please? Yum! Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Dark chocky hobnobs...... Damn I will have to go shopping now. I have a Scrapiron front bumper, which appeared better finished than anyone elses, and I am pleased with it. HOWEVER it took ages to get, many phone calls which were not returned, and cost a lot of money. Now I know a bit more about them I won't use them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Jaffa cakes would be better, preferably with the orangey bit in the middle. 3300/bhp ton - go back to start of the thread and read it as if you were SimonX and the X-eng brake was your little baby. Like a few others, I have nbever bought anythig from SR namely becasue I do not need any of their stuff but the customer service and business practise is a recurring theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 17 users reading this topic currently, have they got wind of the chocolate orange hobnobs on offer? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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