I may have bought a stolen Land Rover

[jericho]

Just had a visit from the local police about a Land Rover I bought privately a few months back.

A police force in another part of the country are investingating the seller who they believe is involved in the sale of a large number of stolen vehicles,and they want to take mine away to inspect it some time in the couple of weeks.

It looks like I could have to stomach the loss of £4000,but the officer who visited said that if a vehicle is built from parts of various vehicles,some of which are stolen and some of which are not,then I may have legitimate title to the parts which are not stolen.

The vehicle is a Q plate 300TDi 90 which appears to have been retro fitted with a used TD5 chassis.The chassis number on the front offside chassis leg matches the number on the registration document,and I have a letter from the dvla amoungst the paper work concerning the replacement chassis and the allocation of a Q plate.

So,in an attempt to minimise my losses I have this question to ask -

How any parts on a defender 90 can be traced to a particular vehicle with an individual ID number?

Obviously the chassis can be.

And the engine.

Maybe the gearbox?

Transfer box? Axles? What else?

Where are all the chassis numbers on a TD5 chassis and a 300 TDI chassis? (its not completely clear if the chassis is parts of several or not)

My hope is that I may eventually get something back, its probably a long shot,but I would hate to think that it might end up in a police auction because they can't determine the origional owner.

Any advice very welcome (other than buy a gun).

I feel like kicking myself,or someone else.

Thanks, Jerry.

[ThreeSheds]

Sorry I can't help with any of your questions - but really sorry to hear of your predicament - and at this time of year too! Best wishes for a happy outcome to all this (ie that there is nothing wrong with your vehicle and it was all a big mistake)..

Good luck!

TwoSheds

[lrfarmer]

chassis numbers are stamped on the right-hand side of the chassis forward of the spring mounting turret and the vin plate

other than that engine number I dont thing theres any other number that can prove what engine,gearbox,body and chassis belong to anuther.

did you use a hpi as if you did and it turns out to be stolen thay have to pay out (i think).

good luck.

Tim

[Mo Murphy]

Oh bugger ! let's hope it turns out OK.

Mo

[Les Brock]

Jerry,

Firsly sorry to hear this

When mine went through the SVA for a Q plate, I had to provide the serial numbers for the engine, gearbox, transfer box and obviously the chassis number on the parts listing..

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

The engine and Chassis are the only numbered identifiable parts back to an individual Land Rover, things like Axles and Gearboxs etc have a serail number that can only place the year of make approvimately within a rnage, NOT to an individual Land Rover.

I belive the chassis has ID (but not the full ones) on other places within the chassis, which shows if complete, these are around the middle somewhere but I forget where, thus if its chpooed and cut n shut the 2 ends have slightly difffering IDs, even though the main full chassis number on the Drivers chassis leg seems 100% legit, can't remmeber when this extra bit started but it was quite late on in LR Builds 1990++

The fact it is on a Q plate should help you, the fact the chassis number matches the logbook is also positive, what about the engine number is it there / does it match the V5 ?

Wishing you luck whatever, HPI is worth the money for anyone reading this looking to Buy in the future, amazing what it can throw up

HTH

Nige

[steve_a]

There is every chance that even if they come down on the side of saying it is stolen but from parts that you can negotiate with the insurance company to buy back the vehicle as is. In this case it sounds like it will be more cost effective for them rather than having to determine which bits are deffo theirs and yours and the dismantling costs.

However it will depend on the split, if the chassis, engine and box are stolen then it would be hard to argue that much of the ancillaries are not part of the stolen motor, which only leaves the bodywork and most of the bulkhead

Keep your fingers crossed that it either isn't stolen or that they believe it is not worth them sorting it out and just offer a basic settlement. I know another £1000 or something would be a bitch, but it's better than losing the other 4K I guess.

Feel for you, when I bought the 90 I knew the engine had been changed and I asked if the documents had been updated and was assured they had. I checked a few months later when getting a part and it hadn't, I picked up from the blokes house as well, along with F off big brother, so I was surprised he hadn't admitted it, because we WOULD have been back...

I had a tense few weeks when I did the DVLA update waiting to see if I had royally screwed up or not.

[white90]

If the original owner can not be determined

then surley you should get the item back?

there are members on here that when they read this may offer proper advice rather than my type of guessing.

Good Luck either way

[Les Henson]

You should remember that the Police or insurance company have to prove something is stolen - you don't have to prove it's not. You may lose your truck for a while in order for the police to check it out, but most parts - while having numbers on them - are not identifiable to a particular vehicle.

Good luck anyway.

Les.

[T1G UP]

I'd strip what ever is non land rover / yours off the vehicle,they'll be looking for personal effects,

like the stolen 90/90's had a santa on the dash,the rear quater had a big scratch, the floor plates were changed when the gearbox was replaced etc.

Good luck,get some legal advice and don't let them take it away!

[lrfarmer]

it may be nice for the Police if you have a nice play in some nice clayey mud before thay take it

thay'll love liying under it then

[nicks90]

let them inspect it, but dont let them remove it!

you'll have a right royal pain to get it back!!!

fingers crossed all will be well, afterall they did an sva on it with the chassis number and it didnt come up as stolen on their computer at the time......

[white90]

I would not suggest being awkward in any way

they are trying to do a job.

Contact citizens advice before they arrive so you know your rights.

[Astro_Al]

I don't know how legal this is, but I wondered if there is anything you can take off it before you give it to them, so that if they do charge you for it, or just keep it, your loss is less?

Winch? Bumper?

Take wheels & tyres and put bad ones on?

Tank of fuel?! (50 quid?)

Spares, tools, I dunno - just a thought anyway. Sorry to hear about it.

Al.

[BogMonster]

Land Rover keep records of all serial numbers for chassis, engine, gearbox, transfer box and axle casings so those in theory should be able to be traced.

[tuko]

Land Rover keep records of all serial numbers for chassis, engine, gearbox, transfer box and axle casings so those in theory should be able to be traced.

Land Rover keeps a build sheet for every Land Rover that they produce, the numbers on all major components are traceable. My local LR machanic can go into the database and pull up all the info on any LR, if has the correct VIN. (we've already done this to properly identify an axle on a Defender 110).

Todd.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Land Rover keeps a build sheet for every Land Rover that they produce, the numbers on all major components are traceable. My local LR machanic can go into the database and pull up all the info on any LR, if has the correct VIN. (we've already done this to properly identify an axle on a Defender 110).

Todd.

Only on much later stuff 1990++

Before that axles on say a range rover were hit and miss and more tracable to a "Year / style / type" rather than a specific LR. More modern LRs absolutely, so what may be interesting is the creation date of the Q. Also for a Q I am sure they note the numbers down, so if they issue a Q and have all the numbers then its ok, if you have a Q and the numbers on the componets don't match the DVLA Records at the Q time it will be worrying as to why.

However why someone would produce a Q and have the bit them swapped is an odd thing to do, unless they took the Q off something and shoved it on a ringed up LR to give it an identitiy, but then you say the Chasiss number matches, so again odd !.

I think the fact its a Q plate prob helps your cause, most truly dodgy motors have a plate on them where NOTHING Chassis engine etc matches

Keep us informed and good luck

Nige

[white90]

Don't make things worse by involving yourself

let them inspect it, provide the proof that you purchased it legally

then wait and see, trying to mess up any inquiry will get you into more aggro than it is worth.

[will_warne]

I don't know how legal this is, but I wondered if there is anything you can take off it before you give it to them, so that if they do charge you for it, or just keep it, your loss is less?

Winch? Bumper?

Take wheels & tyres and put bad ones on?

Tank of fuel?! (50 quid?)

Spares, tools, I dunno - just a thought anyway. Sorry to hear about it.

Al.

Al, anything YOU'VE added, take it off. It’s yours so it’s worth taking before there's any issues over whether the trucks yours or not.

The fact it’s a Q plate should help. I don't know a huge amount about the SVA process but I'm sure Les (or others) could shed some light onto it. As far as I'm aware most of the important numbers get noted and, with a vehicle built from parts, you need to be able to show where the major components came from to stop this sort of thing happening.

If the vehicle is partly made from stolen parts then you may lose it as you won't have title to those parts even though you paid for them. However, the fact it’s a Q plate may help. As Tony suggests its worth having a word with the Citizens Advice Bureau as this isn't an uncommon problem. That way you'll at least know exactly where you stand.

Out of interest did you VIC the vehicle before you bought it.

[OilIT]

Really sorry to hear this - I would speak to citizens advise or DVLA and ask them what the procedure is and then co-operate with the police as much as possible, it will be agonising, but I suspect if you get all silly with them they may (if they find something is wrong) think you knew the outcome before they inspected it, and they may start thinking your more involved than you are !

I would remove winches/big wheels etc though if you have added them - or at least get confirmation from the police that you are able to remove anything you have bolted on and can provide a receipt for after the inspection in the event they find it is stolen.

I'm a firm believer that you get our what you put in, and if it is all a multitude of bits, then you may find you can negotiate with the police/insurance company.

I also think (I saw it on the telly mind you) that you are normally expected to take the vehicle for inspection, and at least that way you will know where it is !

good luck

[white90]

THIS IS THE OFFICIAL LINE FROM A VEHICLE EXAMINER(POLICE)

If the vehicle or parts are suspect stolen, then the police can and will remove it. It may need to be partially stripped / dismantled to be fully identified.

In very simple terms, if the vehicle is suspected as being stolen it will be seized for examination.

The chap who "owns" it now cannot have legal title to it if it is identified as being stolen - you can't buy good title. If parts of the vehicle are identified as being stolen then they remain the property of the original owner or their insurance company. He may be able to retain the vehicle or parts thereof after it has been examined - however that is at the discretion of the owner/insurance co.

If it cannot be identified positively it will be returned to him. It may have to be de-identified by Police and issued with a PolExam marker and new VIN by DVLA.

Bottom line - if it's stolen he has no claim to it and could lose it and the money he paid for it. He would then have grounds for a civil claim against the person/garage he bought it from.

If this chap listens to the forum members and obstructs police, he may end up being arrested himself.

[rtbarton]

OK, so the Police take it away, partially dismantle it and find it is not stolen. Do they have to reinstate to the condition it was in before returning it to the owner?

[white90]

I'll ask but I personally think not.

[Paul Humphreys]

You also need to tell your own insurance as if it is a pile of bits you may not be insured to drive it.

Paul

[T1G UP]

I've had personal experience of this many years ago, As usual your guilty untill proven innocent, i was arrested,cautioned and bailed for court even though i had a reciept,address and number of the man i bought it off.

Because the vehicle had been ringed and i was unaware,i'd spent my hard earned on it,suspension,wheels etc etc etc.

I fortunately removed these parts after the first officer turned up and told me there was a problem with the car and not to touch it!

TOOOOOO late. My parts removed car was left on axles stands, got damaged by the recovery man and never seen again.

I was later told the car had been crushed due to the "owner " not being contacted! The laws an ass, take what you can and expact to be treated as a criminal.

sorry state of affair.