MT's in the Snow

[sotal]

I'm currently running on a set of Greenway Chacos, which are 80/20 tyres and look like this:

They are 235/85/16's

They are great on the dry road and fantastic on Mud/off road, but they aren't that good on wet roads (not that bad but I do have to be aware)

What will they be like on the snow/sludge/ice?

I favoured the car over the land rover this morning due to warmth/comfort and the fact it was blocking the land rover in. That seemed to be a mistake though as it was rather a fun journey to work in the car, traction control light flashing on all the time and brake pedal pulsing! Not sure I like all the modern toys.

So I guess on the sludgy stuff it's going to be just like driving on a wet road, but what are MT's like on Snow/Ice? I'm guessing better than the cars low profile sporty tyres?

[Orange]

Depends...

I have always found tall narrow tyres better in the snow than wide ones. They seem to cut through rather than spin around on the top.

The behaviour of an MT is much the same in snow as it is in sludgy mud in my experience. They tend to clog up and be a pain to keep clear, therefore it feels like you are driving on slicks until you generate enough wheel speed for them to self clean - which in turn means you are probably not going to have the control that you require...

If it's slushy, they'll be fine - just like driving on wet roads, as you say, but if it's proper crisp snow, be wary. I had a nice little 'experience' in my works car park a couple of years ago - ended up drift-parking next to the boss's M3.... I was grinning - he wasn't!!!

[BogMonster]

The best tyres on snow IMHO are all-terrains, really smooth road tyres aren't that great and full on mud-terrains aren't that great. I think the theory being that AT's have lots of sipes in the tread (=grippy edges) but whatever the theory the reality is quite noticeable. Road tyres without any siping e.g. Avon Rangers (the old type crossply, not what they sell as a "Ranger" now) or the Rangemaster, are truly deeply scary on snow and ice. A good mud terrain like a BFG is certainly better than something like a Rangemaster on ice (I have BFG MTs on the 110) but not nearly as sure footed as a good all terrain.

BFG ATs are good as are the General AT2s, for best effect (and assuming the road speeds allow it) drop a few psi out of the tyres for a bigger contact patch, it makes a noticeable difference in really bad weather but obviously you can't run them fast like that. Also beware of an inch or two of slush with any wide tyre as aquaplaning on slush suddenly becomes much more interesting

[sotal]

So I take that as the MT's aren't the best 4x4 tyre in the snow but they'd probably be better than the car tyres on the car?

I got stuck at one point when I had to do a hill start off an an icy hill, no matter how much I pressed the pedal the traction control light just came on, no slipping etc, ended up having to roll back to a less icy patch off road then get a run up over the icy patch. I think the LR would have just driven over it

[ThreeSheds]

IMHO it's probably impossible to answer the question fully. There are so many different kinds of snow/ice ranging from verglas (this morning on my estate) through deep powder to wet mush that it is unlikely that one tyre will cope with all.

This morning I watched three ABS equipped 'normal' cars brake, slow down and make it around a corner at the bottom of a gentle slope, where neither I nor the dog could even stand, and I must say I was impressed! I thought then that they were a lot better off than I would be in the old Disco! I have to say though, that I was also dismayed that they were all apparently oblivious to the conditions - they must have been for even trying it at those speeds! The fact that they made it is testament to modern technology. That's the ABS generation I guess

Just my tuppence worth

Roger

[sotal]

I've always had older cars, the most I've had is ABS before, but I just had this car as a brand new company car - It's an Astra SRI, it's been a great reliable car, but it's probably the worst car I've ever driven in the ice/snow. Probably partly down to me not being used to it. I think I managed a top speed of 15mph on my way to work today. I much preferred the older cars, I seemed to have more control.

Must have been the gritters day off today, or they forgot to get up or something!?

[Lars L]

MTs are OK in deep snow where there is some bite. Not so good when floating on top is the way to go. A bit like driving in sand I suppose. Almost useless when it comes to roads with hard packed snow or ice. The compound is too hard and the pattern has too big and smooth lugs.

ATs are better with more siping as said before. Still, they are no winter tyres, there are proper ones to get with the proper pattern and compound. But that of course depends on how often and for how long time there is any snow or winter. They are the only ones to have here though. IMHO...

[q-rover]

Depends what you mean by snow and how long the snow season is.

Any tyre is **** compared to a proper snow tyre, MT's are the worst.

Cooper make a very good snow tyre, see below, and the most obvious difference from

other AT/ MT tyres is the amount of siping. TBH AT tyres are very borderline as well.

As an indicator that the tread pattern has even been considered for snow there

should be a snow crystal/ mountain symbol on the sidewall. M+S is absolutly no

indicator whatsoever that the tyre can be usefull in snow.

The old Pirelli slogan holds true 'Power is nothing without control' and if your tyres can't

grip, your not going anywhere.

[Retroanaconda]

Probably find the four-wheel-drive aspect of the Land Rover will be a big help too.

[q-rover]

Except when trying to stop or turn.

[Bowie69]

Probably find the four-wheel-drive aspect of the Land Rover will be a big help too.

I prefer driving my Audi Quattro to my Rangie in the snow -especially with factory rear diff lock

[TheHarv]

I prefer driving my Audi Quattro to my Rangie in the snow -especially with factory rear diff lock

Likewise - in all but the deepest snow I prefer my (lowered) Subaru... with 4 Yokohama ice/snow tires and LSDs centre and rear - plus lower weight and CG

FWIW I tried my 110 on Michelin XZLs last winter which have a similar (possibly less aggressive) tread pattern to those. In deep snow (I'm talking 12in +) they were not too bad but on even slightly icy pavement they were downright scary

- too much void area means the actual rubber to the road is limited

- no factory siping (although I added some siping by hand)

- relatively hard compound especially in colder temps

All these are what a true winter tire (like the Cooper above) gets you. Over here winter tyres like those are rated by the 'RMA' (Rubber Manufacturers Association) and carry a special 'mountain / snowflake' symbol. Wouldn't use anything else.

[sotal]

Well I went home this afternoon, it's been snowing all day and the roads weren't too bad due to traffic, but the last bit to my house had hardly been driven on and instead of slush it was hard ice. The car was difficult to control. So I thought I'd try the Series out for the way back.

It was as predicted really. I put it in 4wd Low, and it set of perfectly no spinning or loss of traction, actual driving was perfect much better than the car. The only difference was braking where any slight press of the brakes locked them up, but in low box it was easy enough to use engine braking. Parking on the ice rink (car park) at work was a breeze. I dropped it back into 4wd Low (used 2wd High for the slushy roads) and it backed with ease no loss of traction.

So all in all the LR on MT tyres is much better than the astra on it's low profile tyres

[q-rover]

It probably had more to do with ¤wd and low ratio/ speed than tyres.

As you said, any touching of the brake caused instant lockup.

Now imagine travelling to Wales for a weekend away, in those conditions.

[bishbosh]

Water is what makes snow and ice slippery - the pressure of the tyre on the ice causes it to melt that forms a lubricating layer.

Hence, the key to winter tyres is firstly loads of sipes and secondly a soft compound that stays flexible at low temperatures.

[Greenmobile]

MTs are OK in deep snow where there is some bite. Not so good when floating on top is the way to go. A bit like driving in sand I suppose. Almost useless when it comes to roads with hard packed snow or ice. The compound is too hard and the pattern has too big and smooth lugs.

ATs are better with more siping as said before. Still, they are no winter tyres, there are proper ones to get with the proper pattern and compound. But that of course depends on how often and for how long time there is any snow or winter. They are the only ones to have here though. IMHO...

Spot on Lars, I've used my Greenway Atacamas in 45cm of loose unploughed snow and they were great. On hardpacked snow/ice AT's are OK but you can't beat proper winter tyres. I've just got a new set of studded tyres on the Volvo and you drive safely at a higher speed in nearly all conditions than the 110 on AT's. 4WD/2WD doesn't have that big an effect.

[nicks90]

i found out yesterday that greenway machos are rubbish on ice and slushy snow.....

slid all over the place - whereas the disco on cooper all terrains cruised about with hardly a flicker of the traction control.

[steven Hart]

Simple answer is depends on the snow.

Generally if the snow isn't to deep then tyres that cut through the snow to the ground(road) below are best. but deep snow a wide tyre can work as it allow you float on the suface reducing the drag this is more common in places like Iceland.

[tacr2man]

With snow and ice its the driver more than the tyre . I have a snow plough that I use on my 110 and that runs BFG Mt 235/85 . no tyre is any good on hard pack snow /ice . I have gislaved snow tyres on my car and thats just to help it with loose/fresh snow . Studs , are fantastic (but i think illegal now) , other than that chains. apart from that it does not make much diff what tyre . Mt are much better at dealing with deepish slush, as it acts a lot like mud and the high void tread helps prevent aquaplaning . When running constant 4wd vehicles in conditions where snow or slush has built up into windrows , if you intend to cross engaging difflock helps with preventing the vehicle pivoting around the first wheel to hit the mound. ABS is not to be relied on as much as in wet conditions JMHO

[Anderzander]

I had a monster slide further down this road in my 90 on BFG AT's

Further along it came steeper and there was a stone wall on each side with a mixture of snow and ice.

My friends young lad was sat in with us in the middle seat. I didn't brake or turn sharply but we just suddenly started sliding. The back came round but the landy kept all its forward momentum - so we ended up continuing down the lane sideways - with the front facing a wall and us gradually getting closer to it.

I was concerned we might hit something big in the lane side on and be tipped over.

When we came to rest - and to diffuse any possible bad response from my wife - I turned to the young lad and said "how many out of 10 for that?"

He grinned like a cheshire cat and said "10!!!!!!!"

Not much you can do when all four wheels go.

[sgnas]

As an indicator that the tread pattern has even been considered for snow there

should be a snow crystal/ mountain symbol on the sidewall. M+S is absolutly no

indicator whatsoever that the tyre can be usefull in snow.

My newest (1yr old) set of BFG ATs have this symbol.

I was suprised to see it!

Ought to check an older set as I don't remember seeing it before