Mark Jenkins Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Very sad: BBC News Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 that is a sad event i wonder if it was the bracket on the actual axle or the trailing arm that snapped as snapped trailing arms seem abit common lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 That's actually a lot less of a sentence than I thought it was going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Wishing him and his family all the strenght needed to get through this... One would think that they have been punished enough already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurriaan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Wishing him and his family all the strenght needed to get through this...One would think that they have been punished enough already +1 Ralph. Nothing to add, just a bit speechless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 "I find it hard to understand how you could place the lives of your partner and seven children in grave danger by allowing them to travel in such a vehicle" My sentiments exactly. Two years is not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm with the judge on this one, although I wouldn't have been surprised, or disappointed, if the sentence had been longer, mainly because NG doesn't appear to have accepted that what he did was wrong, in any way. No doubt that as we write, some lawyer somewhere is working out how the time served can be reduced. I do feel sorry for his surviving children and partner (now ex-partner I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 So in what way was the vehicle unroadworthy? What broke exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 "I find it hard to understand how you could place the lives of your partner and seven children in grave danger by allowing them to travel in such a vehicle"My sentiments exactly. Two years is not enough. I agree with you bish, the ignorance and total arrogance shown by him at the trial astounded me, it was an accident, but a totally avoidable one. We all have a responsiblity for the vehicles we drive, and the people we carry in them, something he didn't seem to take very seriously. Two years is not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 What was actually wrong with his vehicle? 'bracket near the axle'??? WTF? Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 What was actually wrong with his vehicle?'bracket near the axle'??? WTF? Al. Coil sprung axle; what locates the axle? A couple of trailing arms? Bracketed to the chassis and axle? What's hard to understand? So in what way was the vehicle unroadworthy? What broke exactly? From memory, the two major items were different brake calipers on each side of the front axle, causing uneven braking. Off-road damage to the rear axle locating arms, not adequately repaired. Follow the link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7846801.stm, and look at the 'See Also' reports on the RH side. They date from the trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Sorry I asked Sparkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I fear the bloke knows he's done it to himself. Let's all take something from it and not bodge repair stuff and try to prevent this happening ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 An accident with such terrible consequences avoidable yes but it has happened, Now Nigel has time to reflect but nothing will fill the void the kids have left. A lesson for all when modifying cars, if you don't know what you are doing then leave well alone of or get guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 A previous report stated that the Police identified 30 serious issues on the vehicle. My thoughts are with the Children who lost their futures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 One report said a corroded bracket was missed at the last MOT. Will the MOT tester be held partially liable for not spotting a defect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santalars Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Does anybody here now how his car is performing in extreme on road situations at 80 mph? Or how to avoid overturning or get control back after a spin? An off road modified defender will not be controllable in an extreme situation by untrained drivers at high speed. Also we should think if anyone here is shure that the inspectors would not find at least ten issues on his vehicle after an accident like this. The investigation would surely not be as superficial as the MOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm pretty sure that. although the mods and radius arm bracket failing were all contributory it seems to have been down to his driving at excessive speed for the conditions. The failure of the bracket, dodgy brakes, loose seat and so on wouldn't have helped. Channel 5 "journalists" showed a few years ago how you could flip a standard Range Rover by not driving with the handling characteristics of the vehicle in mind. A very sad case that probably resulted in a fair sentence although I was half expecting a suspended sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefcoL Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I agree with you bish, the ignorance and total arrogance shown by him at the trial astounded me, it was an accident, but a totally avoidable one.We all have a responsiblity for the vehicles we drive, and the people we carry in them, something he didn't seem to take very seriously. Two years is not enough. totally agree; four children = 6 months for each of their lives, how on earth can that be enough. Kill my child and see what you will get. and for those that think I am being harsh... get over it . the idiot was clearly traveling far to fast with seven kids. he was totally responsible. the children had no choice, he did and that was to drive at a safe speed with their safety in HIS hands. Also "the ignorance and total arrogance shown by him at the trial " to my mind shows he deserves no sympathy. We must put our kids first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 and for those that think I am being harsh... get over it . the idiot was clearly traveling far to fast with seven kids. he was totally responsible. Any idea what speed he was travelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Fast enough for the circumstances that one of the witnesses said she screamed when he came past. I think the Police said 50 - 60 and I think the road narrows at that point and traffic has to give way to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The reports suggest he was travelling between 50 and 60mph, so within the legal speed limit. Can we all come away from guessing what happened, what caused the incident and apportioning blame. Everyone is speculating what each line of the press release means, jumping to conclusions about failed parts, poor MOT etc. None of us were there. None of us were in the vehicle. None of us know what actually happend. None of us can feel as bad as Gresh does ever since the fateful moment the accident happened. He will have done maintenance to his vehicle confident in his actions and would never knowingly put his family in danger. Poor judgement is easy to criticise using the power of hindsight. I think we should all just consider the pain and torment this poor man is now going through and probably will for the rest of his waking days before we comment further. If there is anything any of us should be doing now we should offer a prayer for his family and be thankful it wasn't one of us. If you maintain your own vehicle you may believe in your vehicle as much as Gresh or any other of us in here. Are you confident your vehicle is any better ? If you have one single doubt in your mind, get your vehicle checked by a professional. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 On the whole Neil I agree with what you say. Just from the maintenance side - when you work on your own car you have to assume responsibility for what you have done to be to a good standard - the incentive to do that when you have your own children in there should be enormous. Our hindsight - is his foresight, and I think that is partlywhat is being discussed. He described himself as a mechanic by profession to the court - though I think they said he had received no training or formal qualifications? So to drive a car with serious and what must be obvious faults - mismatched callipers, loose steering, spongy brakes, loose drivers seat (to site the ones listed in the report) surely either shows wilful neglect or incredible ignorance. I find it hard to believe anyone could consider themselves to be a mechanic and be that ignorant? To then drive that car at speeds described as excessive takes it a step up to criminal negligence or phenomenal ignorance. With ignorance being no excuse for culpability in the eyes of the law. I have seen no recognition of any degree of responsibility within the reports? I find that unbelievable? I can only presume he is clinging to this idea that he is devoid of responsibility as a defence mechanism? For me the idea that he has suffered loss brings no sympathy if he has had responsibility in taking the lives of four children who were in his charge. Whether he accepts it now or not I think he must feel at some point that he has taken the futures of those children away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 What Neil said ^^^ Hindsight is a great thing. As for being qualified, well some of the best mechanics I know don't have a bit of paper to their name and some of the stupidest I've known are supposedly qualified so I don't put much store in paper qualifications I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 As has been said, it's easy to be critical with hind sight. How many amongst us who has not had a scare whilst driving where we have misjudged the speed, road or conditions? How many of our vehicles if put under close scrutiny would pass with flying colours? Not many I'll bet. If there is one thing we should all take from this, it is to be extra careful while maintaining our vehicles and when driving - as the worst can happen and indeed has happened to one of us. Si Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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