Brake pipe emergency repair

[Peter]

If for instance you were out in the wilds of Africa, what would people suggest to do if you discovered a split/crack in a Land Rover brake pipe ?

Would something like JB Weld work, and how would you prevent it blocking the flow of brake fluid along the pipe ?

Okay hands up, can't get my brake pipe fixed before a laning trip and need to bodge it, just wondered if the above would work.

Cheers

Pete

[Turbocharger]

Following a failure 'in the field' I am aware of people who have just crimped the pipe over to hold pressure and driven home on three working brakes - be aware that if this is a front wheel it will snatch the steering somewhat. I will stress that this was a get-you-home - if you have to ask the question, you probably already know the answer...

[dollythelw]

stop, apply sweetcorn, cook till lightly suntanned

[Peter]

The red brake warning light has been on for about a week now, kinda ignored it (ignorance on my part - as its due to low level of brake fluid, not a sticking sensor - der). And the brakes seemed to be working fine, towing a heavy trailer on a number of occasions. I get your gist though.

[FridgeFreezer]

What John said - crimp the tube and drive with one less brake, or brakes only on one axle. Obviously you need to drive accordingly but it's really not too bad.

Repair for copper pipe is to either cut out & join a new bit in (requires a spare fitting), replace, or if you have a little slack (things often fail near fittings) cut the end off and re-make the thing a bit shorter.

My brake pipes are all braided TFE, which means they don't suffer from the same problems and don't require a flaring tool, but as I found out it does mean you can't crimp them shut like copper if something does manage to damage them. I carry a bit of spare pipe & a few fittings now, which cover most options and add almost nothing to the tool rider.

[Night Train]

Are you really going to take to the public road with a known fault in your brakes just because you want to have a play before you can fix it?

Glad you're not local to me.

[zoltan]

Would something like JB Weld work, and how would you prevent it blocking the flow of brake fluid along the pipe ?

Okay hands up, can't get my brake pipe fixed before a laning trip and need to bodge it, just wondered if the above would work.

Cheers

Pete

JB Weld won't hold back 1000psi terribly well. Where in Kent are you? I have a flaring kit and plenty of 3/16 kunifer or bundy as you prefer

[Peter]

Can't believe its the same 3 people on this forum again. Wow you've got some high numbers on your posts..Anyway thanks for the advice FF, this was kinda suggested earlier by a mechanic. And would make sense, assuming I can get the correct fitments, as its only about 7" from the rear flexy pipe, and would be a hell of alot eaiser than routing a new pipe through to the front junction box so long as the rest of the pipe work will take a flaring session.

No I am not going to take to the open road - and has not been since I found this problem this afternoon. LR is in my garage just looking at the options in case it happens in Africa.

Would rather not go laning than take a known unsafe vehicle on the road, not worth the risk. BTW Night Train your picute looks like my old S2a.

Gigglepin said they would make me up a pipe if I needed it.

[white90]

Peter

carry some bleed nipples

if a rear axle pipe gets damaged remove it and put the bleed nipple in place on the t piece on the top of the Diff.

if you break a caliper you can remove the rigid pipe and place a small ball bearing in the hole

then replace the rigid pipe.

these are of course emergency fixes but have both served me ok.

[Peter]

Tony,

So what your saying is its possible to fit a bleed nipple, say taken from one of the rear brake calipers. Undo the rear pipe from the front pressure regulating valve (mine only has one pipe from front to back, which seems odd as there are two to the front brakes - unless LR knew Front brakes were more important than rears in 1985, downhill braking I suppose) and plug it with the bleed nipple.

BTW anyone know how to remove the brake pipe from the clips along the chassis - as mine are 24 years original I think, and covered in Dinitrol. Else will use old pipe as carrier for new with cable ties - if get to DIY it properly.

Got a Haynes Brake manual so will look at that in morning, as realy ought to start fixing the LR myself, as no longer getting paid for 8 hours a day in front of a PC twiddling me fingers for work.

[simonr]

Simpler than a bleed nipple is a simple ball bearing, small enough to fit inside the fitting.

Re-tighten the fitting and it squeezes the ball into the flare and effects a good seal.

This does not damage either part of the fitting and pretty much, one size fits all.

4 or 5mm seems good.

Si

[white90]

The ball bearing method I posted about was Simons Idea he told me about it at an event when we broke a caliper, we had no bearing so made a similar one with some solder melted into a ball.

Peter yes the brake nipple is the same thread (well on my 300TDI it is)

[FridgeFreezer]

Are you really going to take to the public road with a known fault in your brakes just because you want to have a play before you can fix it?

^^^ This.

I have to admit I missed that part of the post. If you can afford the fuel to go laning, you can afford the few quid it costs for a roll of pipe, a handful of fittings and a flaring tool from the local motor factors.

[mmgemini]

Two things

When on a trip in Africa I carry a length of bundy pipe.

Some male and female connectors. These coupled together will join a broken pipe.

A rear flexi pipe for my 110 Defender. The rear can have the threads cut to fit the fronts.

A small pipe flaring tool.

Prevention.

Make sure the pipes are out of the way.

[bathtub]

If for instance you were out in the wilds of Africa, what would people suggest to do if you discovered a split/crack in a Land Rover brake pipe ?

Would something like JB Weld work, and how would you prevent it blocking the flow of brake fluid along the pipe ?

Okay hands up, can't get my brake pipe fixed before a laning trip and need to bodge it, just wondered if the above would work.

Cheers

Pete

If you are doing a Africa trip why not fit Line locks to each corner ?? I have 4 on the bulkhead twist a lever & problem solved until you have a chance. Plus i use braided hoses with compression fittings ,all you need is a new olive or worse case a leght of hose!

[Daan]

I carry a metre of pipe with unions flared on both ends ready to go. This fits on every corner, you might have to loose a bit of length by tywrapping it to something.

I also have some female fittings, that I could attempt to flare on if the line to the rear flexi goes, but there is very little chance of that happening. Plus some spare flexis and a bleednipple as mentioned before.

Daan

[zim]

If you're in africa, don't worry about the broken brake line... because by the time you've stopped to inspect it, 1/2 your landrover would have been stolen

G

[Dave W]

My brake pipes are all braided TFE, which means they don't suffer from the same problems and don't require a flaring tool, but as I found out it does mean you can't crimp them shut like copper if something does manage to damage them. I carry a bit of spare pipe & a few fittings now, which cover most options and add almost nothing to the tool rider.

FWIW I've temporarily fixed (for about 200 miles off road) one of these pipes by attaching a pair of mole grips to the end and tie wrapping the mole grips to the chassis. It did the job and only took a few mins. Once I was out of the stage I then replaced the pipe with the spare I was carrying but the "fix" kept me going and the tandem braking system meant there was only a slight change in braking performance.

[reads90]

If for instance you were out in the wilds of Africa, what would people suggest to do if you discovered a split/crack in a Land Rover brake pipe ?

Would something like JB Weld work, and how would you prevent it blocking the flow of brake fluid along the pipe ?

Okay hands up, can't get my brake pipe fixed before a laning trip and need to bodge it, just wondered if the above would work.

Cheers

Pete

I did have this happen to me . I drove 1800ks across the Australin outback typical heavly corrigated tracks ,when all of a sudden the rear nearside brake pipe broke at the Union. I was 900 Ks from the nearest garage . So i undid the unions and took out the pipe, Filled the unions up with the petrol tank repair putty . Let it set and then screw them both back in and then bleed the systema and ran the 900Ks to Alice springs on three brakes , with the camper trailer on the back.

Worked well

When i got to Alice went to the dealership and got a new rear pipe and fitted . I still hvae the unions in the center cubby box to use if it happens again

I always keep that Fuel tank repair putty in the car. Would not belive what i have fixed with that , from brakes, to rad, to Holes in the axel

[mad_pete]

Well I admire the honesty if nothing else ........

New highway code questions

The red brake warning light comes on, do you

a) check the fluid level immediately

b) ignore it as it's only a faulty switch indicator light anyway and lifting the bonnet is very time consuming

c) find heavy trailers to tow assuming if that doesn't cause the brakes to fail everything must be fine

Laning with only 3 brakes is okay because

a)Even though byways count as public highways they don't really count

b)A land rover's character means Police don't expect everything to work anyway

c)Brakes are over engineered anyway you only need to worry when you get down to 2 or less

Fix your brakes. You hit someone on a lane or otherwise with brakes that have been deliberately disabled you are going to jail. And you lot stop encouraging the bodging. :-p

and just for the record fronts are more important than rears as I think the work split is 70/30 for reasons I don't understand. I guess the force shifts onto the front wheels under braking meaning the rears would lock up sooner and therefore have to have less force applied.

[AD90]

For a field repair do a search for "3/16" Solderless Compression Union" carry a few of them and a length of pipe and a repair can be effected without the need for flaring and maintaining brakes operational. Not sure they would pass the MOT, but they do work, I've done it (in fact I even got through an MOT with one)

AD90

[ejparrott]

Well I admire the honesty if nothing else ........

Fix your brakes. You hit someone on a lane or otherwise with brakes that have been deliberately disabled you are going to jail. And you lot stop encouraging the bodging. :-p

and just for the record fronts are more important than rears as I think the work split is 70/30 for reasons I don't understand. I guess the force shifts onto the front wheels under braking meaning the rears would lock up sooner and therefore have to have less force applied.

I believe there is only one legal emergency repair in the UK...

Phone the RAC/AA.

If caught with 'emergency repaired' brakes...i think you're going to jail. If you're in deepest Africa, its one thing, it could be a matter of life and death. In this country, you shouldn't even be asking on a public forum how to bodge your brakes. On my other forum, you'd be banned for asking that.

As for the braking balance, I believe it is because of the way a car dips at the front under braking. If more braking was done by the rear, the shifting of weight toward the front would reduce the grip of the rear tyres, and could therefore slip. That is what i was told when I became a biker - you always use the front brake first.

[FridgeFreezer]

In this country, you shouldn't even be asking on a public forum how to bodge your brakes. On my other forum, you'd be banned for asking that.

Your other forum sounds brilliant

When was the legislation bought in against asking questions? Is it part of the SVA?

Although driving a vehicle in unroadworthy condition may well get you in trouble if "caught" (especially if "caught" coincides with "being the cause of an accident"), I would imagine that the trouble would be fairly minor if it were the case that you were removing the vehicle from obstructing the highway and driving the vehicle very carefully to the nearest place of repair. For example, I think the police would usually rather you limp carefully off the motorway to somewhere safer rather than refuse to move without a recovery truck because you've got a tail light out and could be sent to prison and have your children crushed if caught.

Tooling around with a laden trailer or going laning with your mates with f**ed brakes probably doesn't fall into that category though.

[white90]

I believe there is only one legal emergency repair in the UK...

Phone the RAC/AA.

If caught with 'emergency repaired' brakes...i think you're going to jail. If you're in deepest Africa, its one thing, it could be a matter of life and death. In this country, you shouldn't even be asking on a public forum how to bodge your brakes. On my other forum, you'd be banned for asking that.

As for the braking balance, I believe it is because of the way a car dips at the front under braking. If more braking was done by the rear, the shifting of weight toward the front would reduce the grip of the rear tyres, and could therefore slip. That is what i was told when I became a biker - you always use the front brake first.

I hate to enter a spat but these are field repairs to get you going

when call the ~RAC won't work

mine needed repair with the car stuck in a bog at an offroad site

we fixed it and completed the event, and yes to my shame I drove home as well.

now I carry brake pipe ready to fit made up lengths.

And I think you'll find having repaired brake on a car isn't a jail sentence without a trial first.

Now onto your other forum

you like all are welcome here but for petes sake stop insisting your advice is the law. it is your opinion like others all entitled to them even if they are wrong in others eyes.

this is a L/R site where people ask questions they want answers to not a lecture on IVA/SVA/law and rights/wrongs every time a question is asked.

Otherwise Ali Read and anyone else please report to my house next week so I can Call Siwhite to come and arrest us and throw us in the clink.

[reads90]

I hate to enter a spat but these are field repairs to get you going

Otherwise Ali Read and anyone else please report to my house next week so I can Call Siwhite to come and arrest us and throw us in the clink.

All very well in theary with all you lot and your road rules

But now in the real world , and after all this was about being stuck in the middle of nowhere in Africa not In Richmond , surrey. Alot of the people in the Uk would not understand how remote you can get. These places we went to in Aus have no radio or TV ( music radio) never mind Mobile phone For days on end not just a couple of mins untill you move ,

The problem is when mine went i was 900 Ks (559 miles, or the distance from Southampoton to Glasgow)) from the nearest garage. And about 500 ks (or 310 miles from the nearest person ). > we had taken 3 days to travel the 1800 Ks along this track in those threes days we saw one car going the other way and none going the same way as us . So we were on our own. So sorry but bugger the road rules i would rather live than worry about only runing on three brakes. I would have driven on no brakes if it got me out of the desert, after all there was no one around to hit anyway