jbs Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Has anyone had any thought as to how to come up with a way of when rewinding the winch cable/plasma back into the drum either under tension or not-using a device to make sure the cable/plasma winds back onto the drum nice and neat and not able to bunch up at one end, the reason i ask this is because when i recently broke my mile marker this is what caused me to have to rebuild one end as the SWR bunched up at one end causing the two tie bars to break through the casing, i once saw a drainage jetting truck with what the driver called a "self aligning hose reel" on it there was a device on that that made it go back onto the reel all nice and neat, i wonder if there could be a device that could be implemented onto a winch to do the same? , perhaps it would be good for thing's like the center winch mechanism on the likes of foers ibex type set ups ie:not having to worry about wether it was going to bunch up when winching with it more or less causing loads of problems Just curious that's all Sorry if this has been discussed before, i did try to look on the search box but couldn't find anything info as to what i needed to find out John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Such things do exist, but they are big! The only sensible way they can work is to replace the hawse with a single hole (like a ring doughnut) and move the winch from side to side behind the hole. You could move the hole - but the mechanism would be fighting against the full force of the winch on a sideways pull. I have seen versions that move the hole - but again they are not small! I believe David Bowyer is going to be launching a decent half-way house solution some time soon. I'll not let the cat out of the bag, in case it's secret! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Can't be a secret Si, as I'm sure I saw it in one of the mags recently and it's in latest brochure/advert attached. Steve challenge%20advert.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 IIRC Robur winches do it, have a search for "Gods winch". There are PTO setups that can winch the truck at 30mph and spool perfectly onto the drum, very bling. Probably no heavier than the average challenge electric setup by the time you add extra motors, batteries, alternators... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Another solution could be a taller and narrower drum. Although not so easy to do because of the way the winches are build, it would work though. But of course you would have a lot of variation in speed. But in many ways, the best setup must be the one off of a 101. It's brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Gent's thanks for the replies the one david bowyer is doing is ok for doing the extreme angles but i was after info on something like what i saw on the other thread of Jez's(dollythelew) of the eastern european military winch-another question has just appeared in my head could something similar to what is on the drum of that winch be used ie:where you see on there some kind of wire guide on the drum to make the wire reel back in neatly that way? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Another solution could be a taller and narrower drum. Although not so easy to do because of the way the winches are build, it would work though. But of course you would have a lot of variation in speed. But in many ways, the best setup must be the one off of a 101. It's brilliant A large diameter narrow drum laid on its side so the axle is vertical would make installation more interesting. Thinking of Scammell winches here as they have paying on gear to effect an even lay of cable. Alternatively having the winch drum further away from the hawse would improve paying on. A centre winch with a small hawse at the back of the vehicle might be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Not that I've looked, but Tatra Kolos have centre-mounted vertical drum winches which hold 100yds of cable and pull 25t, they seem to have a couple of slipper pads which push the cable down onto the drum to encourage it to lay properly. Mind you, it's quite chunky cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I wonder what the brass slider on this winch on Ebay is like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Cable routing would be a problem but having forwards winch mounted at rear of vheicle and vice versa will give good seperation of hawse and drum and that is generally enough to encourage the cable to wind evenly on to the drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Wouldn't a conical drum work? So roughly this shape: >< I'd think a rope under quite a bit of stress will find the easiest point to roll up on, thus sliding to the bit that has the least rope on it. But note that I'm most likely wrong about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 MMMM am liking that idea of the brass slider thing i shall have to investigate this further me thinks, thanks night train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I had a half-baked idea on this today! How about a sort of spring loaded wiper which presses on the cable on the drum. Nothing unusual so far. Make it so that if the rope builds up at one end, it tips the wiper up. Use this force to move the hawse away from the build-up. It could be quite simple and the force generated by the cable bunching is greater than that required to move the hawse away. Haven't joined up the dots yet - but reckon it could work. In fact, it would be enough to tip the hawse with the cable. this would promote the cable moving in the opposite direction. Oh dear.....another project! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Gent's, the winch on e-bay that has the brass slider mechanism on it-i've been in touch with the bloke he tells me he'll send pic's to my e-mail account, when and if he does i'll post them on here and go from there to see how that mechanism could be utilised by a normal winch if possible which would possibly solve the problem i had with my winch before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt bristol Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 ass slider thign will stil encounter the problem mentioned earlier in so far as it will have the full winching force exerted against it laterally in order to move the wire/rope across the drum. Military cable winders (at elast WW2 german ones) used to have a guide driven from the main cable drum which had a coarse thread matched to the speed the cable was dispensed in order to move the cable evenly across the drum, clearlyy DON10 cable is going to exert minimal lateral force but the principle is the same - even if my description is pants! photo is attached - its about as small and unclear as could possibly be found so I apologise in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz489 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 i know this may sound a little mad and i dont expect a lot of people to know what im on about but has anyone seen a beachcasting multiplier reel? exactly the same principal as the winch above but on a lot smaller scale trust me when you are pulling 80lb line against a current with a large fish on the end those tiny reels do a good job of spreading the line evenly back onto the reel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 The hawse is only taking high loads if the winch is nailed to the front bumper, if it's centre-mounted as a lot of these big mechanical winches are, then it's being fed straight on and only has to take a relatively small load. Even if you could mount the winch a foot or so behind the hole in the bumper you'd be reducing a lot of the load the device would see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Hozelock hose reels use a similar method, a plastic slider which moves back and forth laterally in order to guide the hose on neatly. A much stronger version of the same thing could work in thory I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Here is the photo the guy sent me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I wonder what the application was for this winch? ..looking at the photo the line 'baler' seems to be driven by the scroll in the drum , which would imply just a single layer of cable... My solution to not bunching at the sides of the drum is to make the wdith of the roller fairlead about 3 cable thickness's narrower either end , it does mean some cable length may be sacrificed but helps a lot when pulling hard at an angle. As others have said baling the line on with a mech. guide only really works if the winch is mounted away from the fairlead. cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I looked at the distance required from a narrow fairlead (mine is a doughnut on the rear) to the winch drum, and IIRC to get the correct "Fleet angle" the fairlead needs to be about fifteen feet from the drum! Having said that, with the doughnut on the rear cross member and the winch under the B hoop, the rope goes on pretty well. The added advantage is I can see the winch drum from the drivers seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmymac Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 i have no idea how you would build a larger version but sea fishing reels have a kind of threaded mechanisim that a guide runs along to feed on the line. might be worth a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 You need to look at the mechanism fitted to a winch on a helicopter for the SAR chaps, or the "dope on a rope" as they are sometimes called. This has a threaded mechanism which drives a shuttle (moving fairlead) which ensures the cable always goes onto the drum correctly. It would however be no good for off line pulls as are often encountered off road. The simple fact is the first poster who broke his milemarker should have been monitoring it and stopped and respooled as required. This applies to pretty much any lowline winch. Only the 8274 and Gigglepin winches get round this effectively, and the latter are improved by having stronger drum flanges to prevent distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 The simple fact is the first poster who broke his milemarker should have been monitoring it and stopped and respooled as required I could'nt do that as I was actually in the cab driving my 90 at the time trying to winch me and the other guy and his truck out of a sheet ice ridden lane at quite a steep angle and the only tree available was at an angle of more or less 45 degrees so I was a bit stuffed really-oh well you live and learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. It isn't always possible to be watching your own winch, and others may not be as concerned. I suppose if something comes out of this then it will be a good thing for winches. Maybe a CCTV to watch the winch from the cab. Maybe a forum design/build to make a proper laying on kit for the conventional long drum winches. I would have thought that so many people here will consider hydraulic this and hydraulic that. How about a donut fairlead on a slide, powered by a small double acting hydraulic ram. A valve can be set so that as the donut reaches one side of the drum the flow is reversed and the donut moves back the other way. It could be PS pump powered and flow restricted to control the speed. Or perhaps replace the two long rollers on a fairlead with square cut screw threads geared together at one end and electrically powered at the other end. A donut fairlead could be screwed back and forth on the threads by the motor drive, reversing on a switch at each end. Or maybe not a separate motor to drive the screw threads but a geared drive from the winch drum. The reversing could be a flip over gear set as found on a lathe lead screw drive. The donut could flip the reversing gear at the ends of its travel. The reversing mech could be a pair of connected levers that the donut nudges one way and then the other at the ends of its travel. That could shunt a set of gears in and out of forward/reverse drive. The gearset needn't be large or heavy duty but the square/acme threads would be. Maybe a pair used on a vice, like these Axminster York tail Vice Screw? Someone here should be able to build that. It'll be easy compared to what has been done already. Just give me 20% on each one sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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