Steve King Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 It was because of these kind of morons that I bought this T-shirt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I've asked for a sticker for my Electric Freelander! Take it HFH is our Nigel? If so, very well written! Si Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I've added my ten cents worth on their pathetic pages. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat_J Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hmm, these people clearly aren't as clever as they think they are. Hybrid cars good for the environment, yeah right. Probably one of the worst polluting things you can make in terms of cost to the environment to produce. I imagine the depth of their research before putting on a colourful jumper and causing criminal damage was watching a toyota advert. Its these kind of morons who actually damage positive environmental causes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hybrid cars good for the environment, yeah right. Probably one of the worst polluting things you can make in terms of cost to the environment to produce. I only half agree with that. Certainly the current crop of hybrids are pretty hard to justify - but - plug in hybrids have a lot to offer. You don't really need a huge range on electric - for myself, a range of 15 miles covers 80% of my vehicle usage. Even with a Td5 for the other 20%, I still get a combined figure of over 200mpg cost equivalence and about 90g combined CO2 per km including battery manufacture and transmission losses. It has persuaded me that a better option than an Electric Freelander and a Td5 Defender might be a plug-in hybrid RR (for slightly better drag coefficient than my brick). I'll build that as soon as a nice RR/RRS comes my way! Things like a Prius are still at the Model T Ford stage in the development of the technology - but they will get there! My point is - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Disappointingly, they don't seem to have published my comment! It was just to say, as the owner of an electric Freelander - that the car being a 4x4 means nothing - but I would wear one of their stickers with pride for the irony of it! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Well done to the people that posted rude/daft/inflammatory responses on their site, they can now pick and choose to make what is published put us in as bad a light as possible Simon's comment probably was probably too constructive so therefore wasn't published Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangebean Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm pleased that they appreciate the pain and expense that we hybrid owners have to go through by exempting us from their stickering campaign- "...The CRDA officials target the most gas-guzzling of 4×4s leaving those who spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on a ‘hybrid’ version of this status symbol (approx as ‘green’ as a normal automobile) to their own ‘green’ delusions..." Well, mine is at least a greeny colour but I'm pretty sure that's not a delusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat_J Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I only half agree with that. Certainly the current crop of hybrids are pretty hard to justify - but - plug in hybrids have a lot to offer. You don't really need a huge range on electric - for myself, a range of 15 miles covers 80% of my vehicle usage. Even with a Td5 for the other 20%, I still get a combined figure of over 200mpg cost equivalence and about 90g combined CO2 per km including battery manufacture and transmission losses. It has persuaded me that a better option than an Electric Freelander and a Td5 Defender might be a plug-in hybrid RR (for slightly better drag coefficient than my brick). I'll build that as soon as a nice RR/RRS comes my way! Things like a Prius are still at the Model T Ford stage in the development of the technology - but they will get there! My point is - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Si You're right. TBH I didn't consider them before posting, I was more referring to the Prius which people get up on their high horse about because they seem to be under the illusion that what they've bought will have a positive effect on the environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g&t Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 "...The CRDA officials target the most gas-guzzling of 4×4s leaving those who spend Officials? Some-one in their organisation is full of p.ss & importance. Like all these enviro. groups they gather all the facts then only use the ones that suit their purpose. It's easy (& technically an offence) to put stickers on private property but targeting an airport for example would lead to hassle for them. I bet none of them have the guts to hang around the vehicle they have just stickered & explain their reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobson Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Oh dear, it always seems it's in the spring and summer when the anti-4x4 brigade come out in force, never seems to happen in winter when the weather's bad and 4x4s are actually very useful! I'd also like to say that while i do think electric cars are a good idea as a concept, remember where the electricity comes from to power them! Boris Johnson on Top Gear when asked where the electricity comes from: "the plug" -which unless we've swapped to Dilithium Crystals means either coal fired or nuclear power stations! both high polluters! Regarding the stickers though, is someone who's got 90 grand for a new Range Rover really going to care? they'll just get their chauffeur / valet parker / PA etc to clean it off! and i don't imagine the police will be very happy about the changing of plates either, though i'm pretty sure the newer cameras can read your tax disc too... It's all a bit silly really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I am not a great fan of hybrid or electric cars IN THERE CURRENT FORM. At the moment most hybrids use more fuel than an equivilent sized super economic diesel car, as soon as a hybrid is built it has to carry a large mass of batteries about which are distinctly un enviromentally friendly and heavy, the penalty for hauling the weight around is more than any savings in emmisions from the recycled power. But, As has been pointed out all these cars are in the early form of developement and will improve. Battery technology is improving rapidly, just look at a mobile phone or laptop battery now compared to a few years ago. Motor and control system technology is also improving rapidly. The way this technology is improve is with research which cost money, putting out early types of cars allows realy world testing and brings in more money for future developement. The arguement about where the elctricity comes from is only partially valid, it is more efficient to generate electricity in bulk than run small engines, now much of the efficience gain is lost by transmitting the electicity to the home and then to a bank of batteries and ultimately to motion of a vehicle is open to argument and a bit out of my league. How ever much people complain transport technology will move on, whether hybrids or full electric cars are the answer or if something else totally new will come along will only be resolved with time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd also like to say that while i do think electric cars are a good idea as a concept, remember where the electricity comes from to power them! Boris Johnson on Top Gear when asked where the electricity comes from: "the plug" -which unless we've swapped to Dilithium Crystals means either coal fired or nuclear power stations! both high polluters! A power station is actually a remarkably efficient device when compared to a car engine. Even including transmission losses, the amount of co2 emitted at the power station to charge an electric car remains well below that which would be generated by an IC engine in the same vehicle. In fact, to be fair, you should also consider the co2 cost of drilling and refining the fuel before it goes into the car. I don't have the figures to hand, but IIRC the numbers are quite staggering. I'm sure a Google search will turn them up. Nuclear is quite a contentious topic. Personally, I'm all in favour...but I'll leave that one there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Plug-ins do make it easier to switch fuel sources - if you invent a dilithium crystal power station, you just connect it to the grid and voila. If you have to convert every individual vehicle it's not so easy and basically involves waiting for everyone to buy a new car. This is one of the reasons a lot of countries have electric trains, the trains may not be that much better than diesel ones but you can get your electric from anywhere, rather than being entirely at the mercy of oil prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just happened across this rather good documentary from C4: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/what-the-green-movement-got-wrong/4od/player/3156490 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 This service is not available in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlandy Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Does anyone on the green commision realize the national grid has a shortfall on power as it is, so to run electric plug in cars is a no no, hybrid or hydrogen is the only future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think this is a better concept than current hybrids. A long range electric car, that can be plugged in and recharge the battery itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I was going to post on their website, but the moderation doesn't seem to be putting 4x4s in a good light! Some thoughts I had though: I've always been a fan of the benefits of keeping an older car for longer and the environmental effects of re-using before recycling. On that basis I thought I'd compare my just-purchased 2002 Volvo diesel with the same aged Toyota Prius: Volvo CO2 142g/km average fuel consumpsion 52mpg Prius CO2 114g/km average fuel comsumpsion 57mpg Not a huge difference then! And when you consider that the Volvo has 115bhp to the Prius' 76bhp, then surely if I only used 76bhp of the Volvo's engine I can even better the Pruis' figures. Now from an ecconomical point of view, I can't afford a ten year old Prius (at around £3,000), but I can afford a 10 year old Volvo at £900. Then consider how many more years are left in the Volvo and the cost of recycling it when dead compared to the Prius! Onto my 4x4; my/our Discovery currently is used for transporting the stock for my wife's business to fairs (normally 4 large packing crates, 2 clothes rails, 2 folding tables and some other smaller boxes), towing boats of upto 3500kg, towing cars and other Landrovers, plus it got me in to work in the snow to open the workshops and make sure the business didn't stop running. If climate rush can find me a lower CO2 emitting vehicle than a Disco Td5 which could do all that then I commend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Now from an ecconomical point of view, I can't afford a ten year old Prius (at around £3,000), but I can afford a 10 year old Volvo at £900. Then consider how many more years are left in the Volvo and the cost of recycling it when dead compared to the Prius! If a Prius had lasted 10 years I would be worrying about the cost of new batteries perhaps. Any idea how long the batteries last, or number of recharge cycles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think this is a better concept than current hybrids. It's still a hybrid and still needs to lug around around a large lump of battery. Thankfully the engineers pragmatically used the efficiency of energy conversion rather than a politician's idea of physics to design a car that will use the power of both the battery and the engine at the same time to drive it along in some performance modes. The marketeers in the USA have tried to sell it as an EV, but it isn't. Both politicians and greenies are too fond of the simple answer: real life and science tell us that there isn't one answer, there are lots of answers to bits of the question. For me, my pragmatic solution is an old 110 CSW, (recycling!), running a German SVO two tank fuel system, to try and address issues of range, the burning of limited fossil fuels and carbon emissions. If Climate Rush sticker my 110, I'll just have to make fun of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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