Maverik Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi People, just prepareing for phase 2 of my build, which is painting!!! - There is a LOT of info on the web but its all very subjective to who's doing it and what they are painting. Being a total painter novice, I have a vague idea, but want something i can follow, so i have compiled this step by step list. I would appreciate some views on it as I think its a little over the top but again i don't know. I'm going for a "good" finish, I only ever intend on painting it once! (properly anyways) so i want to give the truck the best of starts. I'm not expecting to get all the panles ding free - accepted, but I do want the paint coat to be of a quality that will last as long as possible. So here it is. General: Buy Devbliss spray gun (best I can afford) Use inline water trap on gun. Use Wet and try emery paper. Watch outside temperature, for condensation etc Dust control Prep and painting steps: 80 grit with orbital, remove old paint/key for primer/filler Fill obvious dints etc 80 grit sand down filler (check to see if its wet and dry compatible) Finish filler with 120/150 Apply stopper, finish with 240 grit Use panel wipe to clean/degrease Spray etch primer Spray high build primer Key/Fill non obvious dents, re-sand and finish with 240 grit Clean off with air/panel wipe tack cloth. Spray mist coat Sand whole panel with 400 grit until mist coat removed. Tack cloth/panel wipe Build up 3x colour coats Shopping list Spray gun (best I can buy) Inline water trap Body filler Stopper Orbital sander 150mm disc pad size Wet and dry 80/120/150/240/400 Panel wipes Tack cloth Masking tape Masking paper Mixing pots Etch primer High build primer Colour coat Thinners Good mask .Cheers Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 booth of some sort, gayzeebo or two or partytent and dust sheets a plenty. Some way to keep an ambient temp to allow paint to dry, then a supply of fresh non-dusty air and exhaust to get rid of fume. You may need resp or air fed mask depending on how well sealed your setup is. some info here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/spray-painting.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Naaah: 1) Remove most of the top 7 coats with angle gringer + wire brush 2) Roller on the bar-cote 3) Pick the larger dead flies off once dry 4) Apply top-coat with electric fence sprayer 5) Beer. Seriously: I've heard good things about the static-cling anti-dust curtains or whatever they're called as used by the professionals, basically a bit like cling-film that you hang up but all the dust & overspray sticks to them rather than floating around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I might be reading you wrong here, but were you planning on doing all the initial flatting with 80 grit? If so it's too savage really and would leave ahell of a lot of marks, but ok to clean out dents and then initial filler shaping. 240 is good for flatting the surface of existing good paint. You don't need to remove a lot, just make it matt. When you do a dent, go back to bare metal so the filler is only applied to metal - if you filler over paint the paint can sink in to it over time leaving an obvious ring. you only need to etch prime any bare alluminium - don't flat the etch primer back, put the filler primer straight on it. Do as many dents as you can, they really show up once the new paint is on and you'll wish you'd spent the extra hour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I wouldn't remove the old paint if it's still good. Just paint over it. This may be of use: http://www.roverlanders.bc.ca/faq/LRpaintMain.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty_32 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Thought about using old school coach paint that can be painted on without a gun? My dad used it to repaint a gypsy (of the austin variety not the "tievin cerraven" type) Looks really nice and was easier than using cellulose paint we have sprayed before. It is expensive, think he spent £150ish on the paint, but then no need for all the extra spray gun / gazebo anti-static stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty_32 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hopefully these images aren't too big, they are copied and pasted from facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asalt Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm with fridge but he forgot the last step about trying to touch up the runs with a brush after having the beer(s) ........ It gives it that lovely artexed look .......Painting never was my strong point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I painted my Dad's 101 in my parents back garden using a gazebo wrapped in dust sheets as a spray booth, it came out pretty good- not perfect, but I was pleased. Used paint from the paint man and Dads old Devilbiss gun. The key is down to preparation before painting and between coats, i.e. everything must be clean and imperfections sorted out before you start painting. Was sprayed from bare metal with ali primer - you notice more imperfections once paint has gone on- fix those, then grey high build and finally the green. Lots of elbow grease with fine grades of wet and dry in between each coat. Also, don't rush! Lots of light coats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 As a novice you are best off selecting a single panel and going through the whole process on just that panel. If you are a natural bodyworker it will look great, chances are that it will look carp and you will have learnt enough to do a fine job on the rest of the truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Guys, just the advice I was looking for cheers. Fridge, I bow to your superior knowledge, after I've spent too much time faffing with a spray gun, i'll revert to the old brush and olive drab!!! Point taken about the 80 grit, will leave that for just repair spots. - if I'm just flatting/keying old paint and not going to bare metal, do I just put the high build straight onto that? and miss out the etch layer? The panels are many different colours some of the paint is better than other bits, so I'll play it by ear. I've got a new door and 2 extra wings I can practice on before I hit the truck properly, I've got a double garage which I was planning on building a booth in one corner. was going to hook up an old radiator fan for some ventilation. With regard to paint supply, has anyone got any reccomendations? Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 I painted my Dad's 101 in my parents back garden using a gazebo wrapped in dust sheets as a spray booth, it came out pretty good- not perfect, but I was pleased. Used paint from the paint man and Dads old Devilbiss gun. The key is down to preparation before painting and between coats, i.e. everything must be clean and imperfections sorted out before you start painting. Was sprayed from bare metal with ali primer - you notice more imperfections once paint has gone on- fix those, then grey high build and finally the green. Lots of elbow grease with fine grades of wet and dry in between each coat. Also, don't rush! Lots of light coats... lovely truck by the way - and nice painting too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Guys, just the advice I was looking for cheers. Fridge, I bow to your superior knowledge, after I've spent too much time faffing with a spray gun, i'll revert to the old brush and olive drab!!! Point taken about the 80 grit, will leave that for just repair spots. - if I'm just flatting/keying old paint and not going to bare metal, do I just put the high build straight onto that? and miss out the etch layer? The panels are many different colours some of the paint is better than other bits, so I'll play it by ear. I've got a new door and 2 extra wings I can practice on before I hit the truck properly, I've got a double garage which I was planning on building a booth in one corner. was going to hook up an old radiator fan for some ventilation. With regard to paint supply, has anyone got any reccomendations? Mav I use enamel paint, but there are plenty of other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db950 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi, the etch primer is only needed on bare Ali. Where there is still solid paint just key it and use normal primer. Presume you will be using 1K paint (single pack) buy the best you can afford this will make all the difference, warm the paint to make it thinner the less thinners you have to add to get it to flow the better ( max 10-15% thinners) although you need to get the paint thin enough to make sure it atomises or you will get a nice orange peel effect! I add some 2k fast hardner to the 1k paint I use to make it go off quicker ( max10%) 1k synthetic dries more with airflow over it rather than heat so don't need to heat the makeshift booth to ridiculous temp. Don't get to hung up on the best spray gun you can afford, better to spend the money on better paint, just make sure the nozzle is the right size for the job. One for around £50 should be fine, I've got a kestrel one with 1.7mm nozzle for 1k and devilbliss with 1.4mm nozzle for 2k You may to get some 1200 wet and dry in as well incase you have to sand the top coat once dry to spray again! Good luck and be patient! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hi, the etch primer is only needed on bare Ali. Where there is still solid paint just key it and use normal primer. Presume you will be using 1K paint (single pack) buy the best you can afford this will make all the difference, warm the paint to make it thinner the less thinners you have to add to get it to flow the better ( max 10-15% thinners) although you need to get the paint thin enough to make sure it atomises or you will get a nice orange peel effect! I add some 2k fast hardner to the 1k paint I use to make it go off quicker ( max10%) 1k synthetic dries more with airflow over it rather than heat so don't need to heat the makeshift booth to ridiculous temp. Don't get to hung up on the best spray gun you can afford, better to spend the money on better paint, just make sure the nozzle is the right size for the job. One for around £50 should be fine, I've got a kestrel one with 1.7mm nozzle for 1k and devilbliss with 1.4mm nozzle for 2k You may to get some 1200 wet and dry in as well incase you have to sand the top coat once dry to spray again! Good luck and be patient! 1200 added to the list. - I've got to make some inquiries about paint as ideally I don't want to gas myself while doing it. - so need to balance get a reasonable gun and good quality paint. My understanding is that 2 pack paint is somewhat nasty (non air fed mask not an option) if you're not covered up, but gives a very good finish.. 1 pack (sythetic acrylic/cellulose) paints are safer to spray but the paint isn't as durable...? Acylic is water based? Cellulose is solvant based...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db950 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Your paint supplier should'nt supply you the 2 pack unless they know you have correct facilities to spray them ( air flow masks, filtration systems to stop it getting outside) stick to 1 pack it isn't as durable but you can get a good gloss with it but of course it won't take lacquer on top which doesn't help with the durability I use a 3m mask (06941) for spraying 1k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db950 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Synthetic and cellulose are solvent based and acrylic is water based. Personally I have never got on with cellulose and achieved much better finish with synthetic paint. It does take a while to fully cure, that is why I add a bit of 2k hardner so you can handle it quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 was chatting to a mate of mine who works in a busy insurance bodyshop and he says the guys there apply the hi-build primer with a roller - might take a little more flatting back but saves on time setting up a spray gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I finally did the top coat on my rear tub yesterday after several days of prep and filler/primer fun. I almost exactly followed the sequence you gave above and the results are not too bad I think. I sprayed the primer with a cheap underslung gun from one of those 5 piece kits. What a ballache! I bought a nedw gravity gun for around £25 (plus in line water trap) for the top coat and it was a revelation. Wish I had used it for the primer too! I bought a box of 120 grit, 240 grti and 400 grit sanding disks for the air fed orbital sander but have not used the 240 at all. I also used a 80 grit flap disk on a grinder for roughing down filler and rapid removal of stuff which seemed a bit stubborn (can't take the farmer out of the man!). Not usre what paint I have but it is good quality stuff and with about 25% thinners went on really nice with no sags runs or orange peel. Going to polish it up today and see how it looks. Wish me luck.... Just hope I can do the same job on the other panels as this was the first one to get the treatment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I get on very well with cellulose. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty43 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 When you buy a gun make sure your compressor can keep up with it. I'm a fan of cellulose, apart from anything else any mistakes can be removed during the rubbing down phase. Unlike other types of paint the shine is achieved from rubbing it down with wet and dry then polishing although obviously the smoother the initial finish the less effort is required to polish it. It's got one other advantage for home spraying in that it drys extremely fast so the chances of getting flys on it are much reduced. There have been questions raised over it being too brittle for offroad use which I can't comment on as I use it for spraying classic cars. If you do decide to use cellulose then I can recommend colourwelduk on eBay. As a matter of interest you can buy cellulose lacquer but I don't know if it would make any difference to the longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C18RCH Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'm just in the process of spraying my 110, the fist time I have ever sprayed anything too. I decided to go the cellulose route because of the protection equipment required for 2K is so much more expensive. Although I did buy a mask (Non-air fed) supposedly capable of filtering 2K because the etch that was supplied was 2K. For the small amount of 2K that I've actually used in a very well ventilated area I figured it would be ok and given the current society we live in I figured the manufacturer wouldn't sell it if it wasn't up to the job. I wouldn't like to use it for spraying 2K all the time though. Anyway, if you're not bothered about getting all the dents out I wouldn't bother with filler of mist coats. I figured landies aren't supposed to be perfect so I just sprayed mine after removing all the rust and flaking paint. I found 120 was best for removing old paint. 400 for flatting old paint that was still ok. I used a wire brush on an angle grinder to remove rust. I sprayed mine 'wet' etch coat, 30 min, primer coats with 15 min between each one to let it flash off, 15 min, colour coats with 15 min between each one, final colour coat mixed 30% colour 70% high gloss thinners to give a good finish. I did it this way mainly because of time constraints. I can only work on it on certain weekends due to it being in Sheffield and me being in Salisbury and not wanting to have to travel up too often. I was mixing the cellulose primer with 60% thinners. Was told 50/50 but couldn't get it to atomise at this ratio. Colour was 50/50 apart from last coat as above. Although I was only told to do this later so the bulkhead which I did 1st has a flat ish finish the rest have a nice finish even without sanding/polishing with the 70% thinners. Some point I've learned: -Buy good gloss thinners -You'll need more sand paper than you think, buy plenty -Make sure you have good lighting -Take your time on larger panels -It takes forever. My build has currently taken 23 days of which 15 has probably been painting. Currently I have used the following: 1L Etch (some left) 7L Cellulose primer 6L Green 1L White 5L panel wipe but have some left 15L Thinners inc for cleaning gun etc 3 can Shultz underseal Loads of sanding paper &disks 1 roll masking tape (I have removed stuff rather than masking) I would definitely use less if I did it again. I think I have used more than necessary due to the learning curve. I would say my painting is ok for a first time but its definitely getting better as I go along. I look at the stuff I did first and cringe now. I'm in no way saying this is the correct way but just the way I have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Right. Since this thread is proving very helpful to a number of us I have a quick question for the experts. I sprayed my colour coats yesterday (think it is cellulose) and have a pretty good finish though it is a bit dull. I understand that it now will need polishing to give a good gloss finish (it is a non metallic Masai Red). So how best to proceed? Wet and dry with 1200 and then polish. Just polish... Hand or machine? And when we say polish are we talking about some sort of special wax or some kind of flatting paste? No idea. Guessing that normal Turtle Wax is not the stuff to use? All tips on getting a nice finish are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C18RCH Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I don't know if it is right or not but I was told not to go near it for a couple of weeks to let it harden. Sand by hand and be careful of edges. I was going to polsh mine with T-cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Currently painting my 90 with 2K (with the correct kit ) absolutly everything is stripped off, cappings and all 18Cfm compressor, DeVilbiss Finish Line Gun 1.4, DeVilbiss Mask & DeVilbiss Complete Triple Stage Filter list so far Etch Primer 1 x 1 litre 2 litres – Land Rover Pennine/Pembroke Grey ( 2 pack ) LRC.476 ( will need more) Fast Activator 2 x 500ml Fast Thinner 1 x 1 litre 5 Litres Panel Wipe 2 Pack accelerator [rocket] Poly masking Mixing stick alloy Mixing pots Tak Cloths Strainers Lots and lots DA sanding disks for the old body small dings left so I wont get to upset when it gets its first ding after completion Grey and Red scotchbrite pads Hopefully done and dusted as i'm off all next week to do it, and hopefully start bolting the lot together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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