Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Evening All, Doing some market research really .... I have been nagged by a few peeps, and have been thinking for a while if there is a market for a new product. Well, not so much a 'New Product', but a "better than what's out there by far" product Axle Case Diff Covers + Diff protection for LRs. Question is this. I have a few peeps who have moaned that they A. Can't / Don't want to "Weld" Ferkin great lumps / new diff pans etc to their Axles / Land Rover B. Want a system of protection that fits really well, really close and really tight, looks good, easy to fit and gives really really good protection - ie everything 6mm plate CNC laser cut, CNC Folded and Deep Passivate finish in a A-Z complete kit C. Priced really well vs the competition and is a better protection system as well vs whats out there - ie I had a QT guard yonks ago - not cheap for what is there - and bent it to *****y on a few not mental clouts, should have not had anything more than a couple of deep scratchs IMHO, and it was removed and binned, as a result I don't think its that great value for money or that good as a protection Kit - and hence me thoughts ?? D. Also it would extend under the diff protecting the Flange of the diff, and the pinion of the diff, even with say modified suspension / Wide angle propers etc etc, but without giving "Traps" to get hooked up on or loss of ground clearances So, is there a market ? For the people that do DIY (like me) (I have Toyota Land Cruiser Covers (8mm Thick) that I just plasmad off and welded on) they will not be interested, but the "DIYers" are small vs the playday Owners who wnat something really good that doesn't break the bank I have started on a prototype, but I am asking now before I do a load of work and find that I am barking .... And if you have any ideas or suggestiojs post up / pictures etc Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I don't playday much, I'm a lot more about greenlaning/overlanding expeditions, but I think something well made, that is easy to remove in case of bush repairs required, but provides a good level of protection and isn't too heavy would go well for that sort of market as well. So I guess that this is a roundabout way of saying I'd buy one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heath robinson Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I like the sound of them, if you can get the design strong and tidy, and keep the price reasonable (which I don't doubt), then I'd think there's definitely a market. Can you keep easy access to the fill and drain plugs without the whole thing filling up with gunk? Keeping the flange covered is always good, if only for modesty's sake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crclifford Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nige, When I get around to stripping and rebuilding my 90, I would probably want to put something over my diffs, that would stand up to a bit of bashing as I use it around green lanes etc. I would like to just bolt something up rather than get someone to weld a HD pan to the axle. That is if I don't need the axle refurbished to fix any holes I find when I wire brush them clean! Though the rebuild is going to have to wait at least another year (already pushed back 2years) until I know my next job and how long I'm there for! HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hmmm Keep it coming if there is a positive outlook I may post up prototype work and ask for thoughts and comments so I can modify it etc Once I have it made and taken ideas mods and tweaks on board then I can get the parts priced up and see what it might go on sale for Then ill bin the idea / see what's what Takes a lot of find and money to prototype hence This thread I look forward to more from peeps N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heath robinson Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Have you ever seen www.kickstarter.com ? Maybe we could do something like that. Just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Whatever you have in mind needs to offer significant advantages over the commonly available bolt on items, that sell for £25-30. I have two different versions of this type, both still intact, although I don't venture near that many rocks. They do tend to fill up with mud but only take 5 mins to empty out. Let's see what you've got up your sleeve :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Made in kevlar, you could then make it yourself, just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Yep deffo a market there for a bolt on full diff and flange gaurd!!! I do also think you should do a weld on heavy duty diff pan too would be offered along side full guard for us who like to weld. It does need to enable filler/drain bungs and prefferably not fill up with too much sh*t, that is my only serious gripe about the bolt on jobbies that are around, they fill up with wet silt and not just from off roading either, I had a diff pan replaced years ago through it rotting through where the salt loaded silt laid trapped by the guard!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Not sure how feasible it is, but a bolt-on HD pan for which you need to cut off the stock pan and drill & tap some holes might be nice. I can see people wanting to take a look at the diff without taking it out all the way. Plus, easily replaced if it does break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 What about a pressed steel pan which just glues on? Sikoflex or similar would hold it OK I suspect. If you were to machine a male & female die, Paul W has a press capable of forming them? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Not sure how feasible it is, but a bolt-on HD pan for which you need to cut off the stock pan and drill & tap some holes might be nice.I can see people wanting to take a look at the diff without taking it out all the way. Plus, easily replaced if it does break. Now I am liking that idea!!! Would need to be done on an exchange axle basis though I think? But got to weld on a Steve Parker H/D diff pan next weekend so will be doing some measurements to see if it is possible for me to knock something up for my self but Nige could do it better LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 "B. Want a system of protection that fits really well, really close and really tight, looks good" I can't see 'close good fit' happening on a rover axel, they differ so much? If there were two strong 8mm tags/ears that welded to the axel either side of the diff cover, it would be something over the QT ! But I think you should be able to bend it with a really good hit. Better to let the energy out that way than pass it too the case. I'd skip 'good fit'. I wrapped the axel in kling film, fitted the QT and filled the gap with spray foam. Not exactly show-standard, but great for challenge Any wrapp around diff gaurd needs a curvy bottom, rather than the simple press-brake bend of the QT. Its not awfull on the front, but it would benefit from being 'sledgier'. If you can get a skid plate to bolt at the nose with elongated holes and bolt really well at the axel I say you have a product But Sliding-hawse never sold well and 'drop pin fairled' isn't flying out of the door either, so I'm cautious about 4x4 fab product investment. Even quadzilla belly pans have only sold three, and they are a serious improvement on the plastic ones. It's a funny market out there ............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Part1cle Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Would be interested in a front and back if you can pull it off - what have I just said? ('98 300 tdi flavour) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I am going to make up a prototype by hand. Then I can Post up here and elsewhere for views / feedback / comments etc Ideas to improve then can get Quotes for CNC / presswork Then can see if it makes commercial sense. So, it may be a while .......... but am going to have a bash Thanks for all the comments, appreacited N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Since my glue-on pressed idea didn't generate any comment (probably a rubbish idea?). What about something that's a rougher fit, and uses stirrups / U bolts to secure it to the axle tubes? The bottom of the axle is pretty strong and prob doesn't need an additional skid plate. It's the rear pan that's ever so thin & needs protecting. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Now I think the under skid is the vital part of the project, to 'slip' over stuff. Makes all the difference if it doesn't dig in. And if your a winching nutter, it reduces the rope strain Best to make one in weldy bits and get it right. Then you can feel safe ordering 10, which will drop the price right down. I bet you could get down to £30 each with VAT? Simon; Glue is good, but I think the end user would struggle Having said that, I bet two pack silicon rubber would do the 'sticking on part' really well I still like the weld on ears idea so much, I think I might 'add' them to my QT unit. That thin top bracket thingy just feels wrong. Looking forward to some photo's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 What about something that's a rougher fit, and uses stirrups / U bolts to secure it to the axle tubes? some thing like this? http://www.more4x4.eu/afn-skid-plates-details/520.html combines HD pan with skid plate with easy fitting. a different make for a Salisbury. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/4x4-vehicles/420829d1284017585-land-rover-defender-90-go-beyond-jeep-captain-94866lg.jpg just some other products on the market. not meant to jeopardise anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heath robinson Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Looks like it would need a bit of careful fitting to stop muddy water rotting things out. But a good design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Just some minor comments: 1. Make it too close fitting and "good looking" and there isn't the space for deformation of the guard to absorb the impact energy without impacting the diff itself, hence a large part of the benefit of a guard is lost. 2. the designs shown in post #18 above both appear to transfer the impact load to the diff/axle shafts. Wouldn't it be a good idea to support the diff guard from the chassis? I'm sure this could be done with flexible mountings to accommodate axle articulation. Acter all, it is normally a longitudinal front to back impact that requires protection. 3. Regarding corrosion by accumulated mud and silt within the diff guard, what about a cage like structure which would prevent most obstructions from impacting the diff but would not accumulate the corrosive carp? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 OK, a couple of comments.. I've had a QT one, clamp on and a weld-on one, experiences are: Clamp on cheapie -falls off at the slightest knock, hardly worth the effort. QT - Lots of dosh really, but seen them move on other peoples trucks, and still get a dented pan with a hole in it I sold the QT one and put it towards a Gwyn Lewis weld-on: http://www.gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/page64.html . Plenty strong enough, fitted in about 20 mins, and never given me cause for worry. Yes it holds mud, but it dries unlike a clamp on unit. Some comments about other types..... 'Full' weld on replacement pans, these exist or people use pipe caps, very nice I am sure, always look rather ungainly to me, if that's important to you. Cutting off the pan is a huge hinderance to most people as it will (or should really) involve you stripping the axle tube down so no nasty grindings get anywhere inside. Then there is the getting a leak free weld problem.... Bolt-on replacement covers -this would be my ideal type TBH, gives you an easy method for diff inspection, the KAM system here always appealed to me for this reason. IIRC there was a notch for the diff lock solenoid and a plate welded to the axle tube, then the pan bolted to that. Still lots of work, but bullet proof and a great time saver in case of a breakdown. I suppose it depends what market you are aiming for.... if your market is people that have their axles in bits every other weekend from a competition point of view, then a weld / weld and bolt on is no hassle to fit, for more joe public then unless you are offering a fitting service, anything where the pan gets cut off is going to be a no-no. As for skid plates, I seem to remember thinking about the Rover diff, that you could make something that didn't have to cost you ground clearance by wrapping under the diff, and be quite simple, and use the existing bolt holes on the nose of the diff int eh same way as the QT one, I was going to make one, but never got round to it (yet!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I have a H/D diff pan to weld on this weekend, but for no other reason than to replace a leaking rotten diff pan where it rotted through due to the clamp on guard!!! I have a cunning plan to get the fully leak proof weld too,will upload pics when I do it,but you are spot on about the KAM diff covers!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 add some drain slots into it to prevent the build up of wet corrosive gloop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 They get blocked :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeyRover Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 some thing like this?http://www.more4x4.eu/afn-skid-plates-details/520.html combines HD pan with skid plate with easy fitting. a different make for a Salisbury. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/4x4-vehicles/420829d1284017585-land-rover-defender-90-go-beyond-jeep-captain-94866lg.jpg just some other products on the market. not meant to jeopardise anything. The first one looks lovely, but at 300 EUR is not cheap. There is a market for this style with less cost. You can't worry about similar products. This is a free market, unless the design isa straight copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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