V8 Exhaust

[=jon=]

Great - thanks for some real world feedback!!

[need4speed]

Any update Jon?

[=jon=]

Not had a chance - moved house in the last couple of weeks so that has been consuming all of my time!

On the plus side - now I have a workshop and a big double garage (that's approx 2" too low for the 110, but I could let the tyres down at a push to get it inside!!)

[neil110]

At the moment I have a 110 with a V8. The exhaust manifolds are double S and are a complete load of Carp. The Y pipe was a special manufactured by PD Gough because the Double S item was an even worse piece of junk than the manifolds. The Centre box is TD5 with a custom inlet pipe (to clear the extended sump on the transfer box) and the tail pipe is TD5. at tickover and round town it is a nicely civilised system. However when I am a little more enthusiastic, it can build up quite a nice roar. Not loud, but nice.

Previously it had a different V8 with custom made Y pipe fitted to RR manifolds a TD5 middle box and a TD5 tail pipe with the resonator removed. Made no obvious difference to the sound levels.

One of the manifolds has a split at one of the welds so I will be removing both of them in the not too distant future. if you are interested...........

[Quagmire]

Right, so I had an set of ESR225 downpipes and y-piece lying about, which last night i tried to fit up with the tubular crossmember I have modded and a td5 90 silencer and rear section.

Everything bolted together on the floor ok, but on the car the passenger side of the y-piece is straight, so the end of the y-piece is too close to the chassis rail to mate with the td5 centre box (would work if i rotated the silencer 90 degrees i guess)

So going back through here it says to use RRC 3.9 downpipes and y-piece. And that brings me to my question. 

Whats the difference between the auto (NTC7320) and manual (NTC7321) pipes? From pics online both look like the passenger side is cranked inward toward the centre of the car, which is what i need. But are there any other differences I should be aware of before I order?

This is all going in my 3.5 powered 90 with cast fanimolds if that makes any difference at all.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[Quagmire]

Ok, from googling results on lr4x4 it seems that the auto version is slightly larger bore, and hangs down a bit so may get clobbered a bit more easily...

Not a major concern for me as I only do the odd spot of greenlaning. 

[Quagmire]

Me again - got the NTC7320 pipes and tried to fit them all up today, on the dry run all seemed ok but when tightening up the downpipes to manifold joint everything has pulled upwards and the part where the two pipes join at the Y is now kissing the gearbox drain plug. This is a 3.5 mated to a longstick LT77.

Has anyone had similar, and what did you do to resolve?

[mikec]

Can't help you really as mine has the lt85 box but if it's only kissing it if it was me I'd probably leave it for now and see how it goes after all the engine and gearbox are fixed so only the flex in the exhaust that could cause an issue. Thinking about it though from memory I think mine does get close to the box aswell 

[Bowie69]

Tighten it all up, and insert piece of lumber, lean on it...

[Quagmire]

Now you come to mention it, Dad does have a couple of spare lt85s in his garage.... hmmm.....

I'll try tweaking the pipes first I think, otherwise what was a simple exhaust swap will have got a bit out of hand! 

[=jon=]

Just a little update from me... Over time the exhaust seems to have changed a bit - it's pretty quiet inside the car. You can just about hear the exhaust note inside, but it's definitely not loud - I guess it's because it's quite a way back on a 110 and there's a lot of other noise going on around it! 

I've not had a chance to get someone else to drive gunning it past me, but outside at low speed, or driving round a multi-story car park with the windows down it sounds like a civilised v8 rather than something TVR / Merc AMG like. I'd still like it a bit louder and more 'growly' but that's purely my personal preference - I'm unlikely to change anything for a while as I want to see if it's different with the 4.6 in it (whenever I can find a block that doesn't have S shape bores to build)...

[mikec]

13 minutes ago, =jon= said:

Just a little update from me... Over time the exhaust seems to have changed a bit - it's pretty quiet inside the car. You can just about hear the exhaust note inside, but it's definitely not loud - I guess it's because it's quite a way back on a 110 and there's a lot of other noise going on around it! 

I've not had a chance to get someone else to drive gunning it past me, but outside at low speed, or driving round a multi-story car park with the windows down it sounds like a civilised v8 rather than something TVR / Merc AMG like. I'd still like it a bit louder and more 'growly' but that's purely my personal preference - I'm unlikely to change anything for a while as I want to see if it's different with the 4.6 in it (whenever I can find a block that doesn't have S shape bores to build)...

That's what I was after but was unable to find anything off the shelf, wish I had kept the carb 3.5 now it ran better than the ms4.6 and sounded perfect just the right balance 

[Quagmire]

Right me again - everything is fitted to my 90 now, so i thought i'd do a little summing up of what I had to do. 

For reference my vehicle is a B-registered 90 that had a 2.25 Petrol fitted from new. These days it has a 3.5 and longstick LT77 from a Range Rover fitted. EFI'd with twin port cast exhaust manifolds.

First up, crossmember - this is as everyone says - you need to weld a bit on and drill some holes. Here's a comparison between my factory crossmember and the Disco one before i modded it:

I initially ordered the ESR225 Disco downpipes and y-piece. DO NOT DO THIS! The downpipes fitted ok but the y-piece is offset so that the passenger side leg is almost straight, rather than the bottom of the y being more central. This meant that although the entire system bolted up on the floor of my lounge, the centre silencer was too close to the chassis rail to fit.

I then ordered the following as suggested on this thread:

NTC7320 "Front downpipes and Y pipe assembly - V8 3.9 EFI non catalyst auto from GA399973 (not CSK model)" 

This is a larger bore than the ESR225 Disco pipes and the both legs of the Y are swept inwards so that the silencer hangs more centrally under the vehicle. Here is is slotted together on my hallway floor a few minutes after it arrived:

So then i fitted this up. This is where the real fun started. The drivers side downpipe sweeps down and then angles back up. Even with the downpipes loosely bolted to the manifolds (so that they could move) it was a real struggle to get the y-piece to slot in easily. Once fitted the whole assembly was under a lot of tension like it was twisted, and it was touching the bottom of my gearbox - right on the drain plug...

Eventually i bit the bullet and chopped the end of the downpipe off with my hacksaw. I cut just after the factory weld, retaining their (hopefully gastight) joint. Back under the car I offered everything up and marked out what sort of angle I needed to cut on the end to get the y-piece to hang a tad lower. This was then tacked, refitted to check and then fully welded.

Downpipes still slightly loose when this was taken. I probably have around an inch of clearance now, should be enough to get the plug out - not much i can do about the filter though without whipping the y-piece off...

With the front pipes all sorted it was time to sort out the rear. I had ordered a:

WCE000030, EXHAUST CENTRE SILENCER TD5 90

and a:

LR066423, MUFFLER - REAR

I got this lot all offered up, which is harder than it sounds - the silencer is huge and isn't light either! I ended up hanging the rear section on its bracket (ESR3924) and rubber mount (ESR3172). I then chucked an old plastic toybox under the 90, which i could lift the silencer up and onto. This more or less got it at the right height to bolt everything up.

Much offering up, checking and rechecking saw a bracket welded to the chassis for the front hanger on the main silencer, and a bracket made up to use the holes on the back edge of the A-frame crossmember for the rear hanger. This basically looks like a big letter J. I made some bolts to go through the crossmember to secure the bracket with some M10 studding and nuts, and the welder. The hangers on the chassis were also made from pieces of studding, shaped to suit.

This is when my second head scratcher came. The entire assembly was too long, and the back edge of the resonator can was fouling the webbing between crossmember and chassis rail when the rear hanger was supporting the back end of the silencer at a decent height. 

I the end I got out the hacksaw again and chopped 30mm out of the silencer. This was the easiest place to do it, as apart from the silencer there are literally no straight sections anywhere in the system:

 

So now it all hangs properly with no clashes or clonking.

So what do i think?

At idle it is dead quiet - This is good.

At cruise it is quiet (apart from at bang on 50mph - then it seems to resonate a bit) - This is pretty good.

At WOT it roars - Another good result.

The vehicle seems to move a bit quicker than before. Some fuel retuning may be required I think.

Overall I am very happy with the result. 

So here is my shopping list again in a condensed format:

• 1 off - NTC7320 "Front downpipes and Y pipe assembly - V8 3.9 EFI non catalyst auto from GA399973 (not CSK model)"
• 2 off - ETC4524, EXHAUST GASKET MANIFOLD TO Y PIECE V8EFI
• 1 off -  WCE000030, EXHAUST CENTRE SILENCER TD5 90
• 1 off - LR066423, MUFFLER - REAR
• 1 off -ESR3737 EXHAUST DOWNPIPE OR INTERMEDIATE PIPE TO REAR SILENCER GASKET (TD5)
• 3 off - ESR3172, EXHAUST RUBBER MOUNT TDI - BMW 4-HOLE
• 1 off - ESR3294, BRACKET REAR EXHAUST 90 300TDI DEFENDER 
• Some M10 studding, M10 nuts, threadlock. 
• A welder.
• 2 off - Mikalor Supra Hose Clamp 51-55mm diameter in Full Stainless (W4)  - For the slip joints.

Big thanks to everyone for all the info in here, I wouldnt have got it done without it!

 

 

 

 

 

[skauldy]

Thanks for the updates quagmire. This is my next job on the never ending list. 

[Junglie]

Hi all,

This has been a great read (and pretty much essential as my 110 is about to get a heart transplant) and I have one probably stupid question.

As Land Rover made a 110 with the V8, why do we need to change anything? Could we not just get the standard parts and they all bolt in? Or am I being hopelessly naive? (Yes, I've seen how some standard parts "just bolt in" so accept it's a movable feast).

Cheers,

Simon

[=jon=]

The majority of 110's with a v8 were the original 3.5s on carbs - the standard exhaust is pretty small bore and restrictive. Even on a 3.5 (albeit EFI) I could feel a difference going from the standard 3.5 setup to the 3.9 manifolds, and then to the larger bore TD5 sized exhaust. 

Since I posted on this thread last time, the 4.6 is in and running, and it's a bit louder than the 3.5 was. Has a nice burble at idle, but I've still not got someone else to drive it so I can hear it from outside!

[mickeyw]

4 hours ago, =jon= said:

The majority of 110's with a v8 were the original 3.5s on carbs - the standard exhaust is pretty small bore and restrictive. Even on a 3.5 (albeit EFI) I could feel a difference going from the standard 3.5 setup to the 3.9 manifolds, and then to the larger bore TD5 sized exhaust. 

Since I posted on this thread last time, the 4.6 is in and running, and it's a bit louder than the 3.5 was. Has a nice burble at idle, but I've still not got someone else to drive it so I can hear it from outside!

My 110 has a 4.2 these days. Front system is 3.9 RR/Disco Y pipes, going into TD5/Puma centre box, pipes and rear box.

Internally it doesn't sound very V8-like. It's actually very pleasant for motorway work. Externally it sounds very different. I've only heard it while others have driven it around the field with a hay trailer and a bit of off roading, but there is no mistaking that it's V8 powered.

I had the same system on my 3.9 engined 90 The V8ness was more apparent from the inside given the pipe exit wasn't so far away, plus the auto box makes the engine work in a rather different manner.

[Junglie]

Thanks. Every day's a schoolday...

[FridgeFreezer]

9 hours ago, Junglie said:

As Land Rover made a 110 with the V8, why do we need to change anything? Could we not just get the standard parts and they all bolt in?

The front half of both mine is standard V8 Range Rover, which fits almost identically - but as others have said, the stock 3.5 system is a weedy under-sized thing by comparison.

From the Y-piece back stock is fine.

[Phill S]

Well, it's been a year or two since a 110 got an airing on this thread, so this is a bit of a this is what I've been doing and a few questions for those who know. Mine is a 1987 2.5NA diesel ex-army job, with a 1997 3.9 Disco engine. This was an insurance write-off vehicle, so having reduced that to parts I have lots of bits to play with. And trip over.

I've just had the main TD5 110 silencer boxes arrive from Island 4x4:

1 x Centre Silencer 110 TD5 (Britpart) WCE000040 (WCE000040) = £72.50
1 x Rear Silencer 110/130 TD5 (Britpart) WCG103020 LR066422 (LR066422) = £54.99

Yeah, I know, but I wanted to make sure I understand what I'm doing before spending serious money, and they ought to last a couple of years.

So here we go.

The need for the different cross member has been covered above, with the nice comparative pic:

On 12/9/2016 at 6:55 PM, Quagmire said:

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/924/iW77aQ.jpg

 

Here's the one off my Disco with the bits welded on and the whole assembly set in place:

 

The cross-member is not central in its end-plates, I've set it in rearwards to get it as far away from the downpipes as possible. I'll drill the holes later, when I'm satisfied everything fits properly.

 

Seemed a good idea to fit the Disco heat shield before the manifolds go on, it attaches with the engine mounts:

 

I forgot and had to take the weight of the engine jacked up on the axle to get the thing on - best done before the engine goes in...

Standard Disco exhaust manifolds:

 

And the Disco downpipes:

 

Strapped the rear end to the cross-member so that I could get the front ends attached like so:

 

The cable tie just to keep the gasket in place while manoeuvering the down-pipes into place. Then with a jack under the back end, I set the gap fore and aft, and each side to 3mm...

 

Now the back end is in the right place (ish) relative to the engine

Bring on the Britparts....

 

The bolts welded to the front end plate of the middle section weren't long enough, so they had to go.

Then:

 

With a lot of scrabbling about and cussing, got the front end attached. Jack in place to support the downpipes, and to adjust the alignment at the manifold end of things as described above.

Centre box strapped up into approximate position and rear pipe bolted up:

 

No olive or rear gasket at this point.

This brings the rear of the thing out in what looks like the right position:

 

So far so good, but time to understand the hangars. I'll sort out some pics of my truck hanger points and come back on those along with my questions tomorrow

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Phill S

[Phill S]

Insists on putting a duplicate copy of one of the pics at the end there and can't get rid of it. Never mind...

[Phill S]

I'll summarise my complete shopping list once the job is completed, but right now I've got a TD5 silencer system that looks about right and attaches correctly to my Disco 1 down pipes.

So next there are 3 hangars on the silencer to match up. My starting point for this is 

On 6/2/2016 at 11:26 AM, =jon= said:

This fitted to the rear with very little modification:

Rear Bracket Exhaust SKU: ESR3294

For the front bracket we used:

http://www.yrm-metal-solutions.co.uk/epages/BT4822.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4822/Products/016B

It needed a 90 degree bend put in the hangar to line up with the exhaust bracket. We didn't bother with the middle hangar.

 

The link no longer works, but 7 years on the YRM exhaust bits are here:

https://yrmit.co.uk/product-category/land-rover-defender-110/exhaust-land-rover-defender-110/

Starting at the back of my truck, I see this:

 

I bought an ESR3294 from Blanchards which looks like this:

 

This doesn't line up quite right so one of todays jobs is puzzling over that. 

YRM show a 300 TdI middle hanger designated 016B located like so:

 

Which looks like a dead ringer for what I've got:

 

Again, I'll eyeball that more closely today, but it looks promising....

My problem then is the front hanger which doesn't seem to have any logical place to attach:

 

Anybody have a fix for that? Find a way to attach to the cross-member upper left in the pic?

 

A dangly bit and a U bolt around the pipe? Could be made to work....

[Paul C]

You could say I cheated. I have used a magnaflow stainless rear pipe 2.5in from a 94 Rangerover classic and made my own front pipes, from flanges to y pipe in 2in, y to muffler 2.5in. I had the 3.9 manifolds and front pipes ceramic coated.  I made the front pipes to mount to the rear gearbox mount and made a clamp and bracket to mount the muffler to the mount on the A-frame crossmember. I don't have a pic of that at present. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Paul C

[Phill S]

Nice job!

[Eightpot]

14 hours ago, Phill S said:

 

A dangly bit and a U bolt around the pipe? Could be made to work.

For centre brackets I normally fabricate a little hanger to utilise one of the bolts on the back of the transfer box cover plate - you'd need to shift the hanger on the pipe forward a bit by the looks though.   In the meantime, Halfords sell a very useful universal hanger strap for a few quid which are useful for short term or to properly position the exhaust while you measure and fit.