robotmatt Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Right, I'm moving from the Freelander family to the Defender one and I've (currently) got a choice of two. I only do 10k miles a year (or less tbh) and I'm looking for a Defender for my short trips to work (<3 miles) everyday, taking the dog out, low depreciation and most importantly some driving fun. There will be the occasional 45min/hour long A road/motorway trip twice a month however. So, with all your wisdom and experience, what would you go for and what do you think offers the best 'value'? Defender 90 station wagon 2003 TD5 - 92k Or Defender 90 XS 2009 TDCi - 62k £6.5k difference.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 As always with Defenders this is not an easy question. The TDCi could have been abused every mile of its life where the Td5 has been looked after and kept in a dry garage... As far as build quality goes they are probably both similar. The XS will keep its value more as its more of a desirable vehicle having leather/half leather etc, so will probably retain its value slightly better. but again its all down to how well they've been run and maintained in there past life. I've got too many questions to counter yours I'm afraid. - value for money and Defenders doesn't really work very well, you kinda just gotta go for what you want and love it to bits and not think about all the costs it takes to keep them on the road... you look at a Defender they rarely make any logical/economical sense in the present market of vehicles... If you want value don't buy a Defender. If you want a cool truck, buy a Defender... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The question is can/do you fix your own truck if so buy the one you can fix, if not buy the one you can afford to get fixed. Then find the one in the best condition/you like the most. They are all a pain in the butt, rust, break down and leak but you will end up loving it regardless. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidW Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 As always with Defenders this is not an easy question. The TDCi could have been abused every mile of its life where the Td5 has been looked after and kept in a dry garage... As far as build quality goes they are probably both similar. The XS will keep its value more as its more of a desirable vehicle having leather/half leather etc, so will probably retain its value slightly better. but again its all down to how well they've been run and maintained in there past life. I've got too many questions to counter yours I'm afraid. - value for money and Defenders doesn't really work very well, you kinda just gotta go for what you want and love it to bits and not think about all the costs it takes to keep them on the road... you look at a Defender they rarely make any logical/economical sense in the present market of vehicles... If you want value don't buy a Defender. If you want a cool truck, buy a Defender... That's a good answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Nether, go older. Series 3 are very attractive at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotmatt Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 Great answers and I realise it's a fairly ridiculous question so okay, forget 'value'. Just, which one would you go for, £6.5 in your pocket and the older one, or just go all out on the newer one? Perhaps thats a better way of phrasing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 £6.5 in your pocket and the older one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 £6.5 in my pocket. I'd be looking for something I can trust, service and fix myself. That for me rules out any electronic engine management system. Just for me of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 There is also to consider that on a newer one you can do preventative maintenance - rust proofing and the like, plus you get the galvanised doors. Have you driven both ? Which do you like best ? Does the Td5 need work doing on it ? How's its chassis ? Clunks ? Doors and bulkhead ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 You could quite easily use up 6.5k fixing a duff 03 Td5... you've thrown out a proper apples and pears argument really. - have you thought about looking for a nice late 06 Td5 with a lesser mileage for an extra 2k, so you still save 2.5k but have a 3 yr younger vehicle... Having played with Tdci's for over a year now I think I would actually go for one, would have to be a Station wagon rather than a van. I think the engines are well proven especially as they have been in fords for a long time. I think you need to have a look at what you want again and try comparing maybe closer together similar models, as the XS could really add £££ to the price tag if you get my meaning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotmatt Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 There is also to consider that on a newer one you can do preventative maintenance - rust proofing and the like, plus you get the galvanised doors. Have you driven both ? Which do you like best ? Does the Td5 need work doing on it ? How's its chassis ? Clunks ? Doors and bulkhead ? I've driven the TD5 and liked it, it ticks almost all the boxes I'm after, other than being a bit older than I wanted and a few more miles, which is actually based on what my current car is on, ie, it feels a bit weird spending more money on an older car than I've got at the moment (2005 freelander). I've driven a very similar TDCi (not the exact one) and the 6 speed gear box was actually a big plus I felt, took both on the same stretch of road and did a 70mph section. There wasn't a huge difference, maybe 500rpm or so but the whole experience felt a bit more rounded, that extra gear really suiting a vehicle like this. Obviously I'm not buying a Defender to do 70mph very often in though. But drive wise, I would say the TDCi shaded it for me. Id say both should be in great condition and will have warranty's (albeit short ones). Both are through a friend and I haven't seen the TDCi in the flesh yet, the reason for asking is, that the TD5 may well go before I get to check out the TDCi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I'd go for a nice £6.5k 300tdi 110 CSW and save the wad for other things A 90 is not a family vehicle, unless you have a nice estate car in reserve. A 110 is just better all round - even for all but the most extreme off road antics. 110's hold their value and 300Tdi's hold their value better than TD5's and Transit engines Mike hit the mole on the head with the spade when he mentioned 'fix it yourself' But then that's just my thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy andy. Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Get a Tdci. Best of them all. Got one and love it. Don't believe all the witch craft electronicy talk from all the people abusing its advantages, whilst typing on their iPads via wifi. The electronics are on the engine, the rest is old school, and if a warning light comes on, you plug it in and it tells you the problem, rather than fitting a wheel barrow full of Britpart poo trying to stop an intermittent problem. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I've driven a TDCi and compared to my 90TD5 the gear-ratios seemed totally wrong. 1st was far too low for road use, and 6th was only honestly usable for downhill. It also didn't seem as enthusiastic at venturing into the upper rev-ranges as the TD5 is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmatt Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I have driven a td5 at work for many years and wouldnever Buy one with my own money. I now have a tdci at work and have had it 12 months and if I had enough money I would buy one the 6 speed box is fantastic 1st is low but that's a bonus with 3.5ton hanging off thetowhitch . But as with every defender purchase its horses for courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 And a note on the TDCi's I've driven quite a few and remeber test driving 3 in one day once ( I got bored) and I was shocked to learn that they all drove quite differently, i.e clutch/gearbox feel, for vehicles that where all 12 months of each other in age... some felt horrible, overly stiff or loose, and one that drove nice smooth and tight. Just something to bare in mind, still take it for a good test drive before buying and try get a 2nd opinion from somone you can honestly trust. And try not to impulse buy, shop about! trust me I didn't and paid probably twice of what it was worth in the end. (although a somwhat older vehcile to what you'e looking at) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 We break the TDci's for a past time at work - they don't take the abuse. I agree with Tanuki on the gear ratio's - just wrong. I like TD5's a lot and a TD5 90 is a fun vehicle and '03 is a good year. If I had to chose between just the two. I know here I would go.... But I would still have a damned good look around at the rest of the potentials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Had them all and would go for the Puma BUT whatever the engine choice buy on condition not year of manufacture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Had them all and would go for the Puma BUT whatever the engine choice buy on condition not year of manufacture. Yep. Agree wholeheartedly. That said, I loath the tdci dashboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 That said, I loath the tdci dashboard. I was the same when I first drove the newer type, but I have somewhat grown to like it over the years and I think I could live with a Tdci dash now. Still hate the gearchange feel though, all of the ones I've driven have had a horrific amount of slack in the drivetrain from new except for one 90 which was lovely and tight. You get used to it but it seems wrong for a brand new vehicle. However I would buy on condition as above. A good Tdci would be better than a poor Td5 and vice versa. All Defenders are similar mechanically when it comes down to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy andy. Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 A Td5 clutch on 90 thou miles will soon need doing and you will put a flywheel in to be cautious whilst at it, so that's a £1000, my Td5 gear box and trans box were both exchanged at 120 thou. Rear callipers at 140 thou. Miles cost money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Seen too many Puma engine problems to consider buying one,but worst of all is that horrible dash,every third or fourth time I jump in one I forget and smack my knee on it. Stupid design,cant think why they think its acceptable.Rubbish gearboxes,paint from a childs poster paint pot.The quality is awful,it was bad enough for TD5's,now they are just rubbish. The TD5 engine faults can usually be fixed fairly sensibly,but the Puny,sorry Puma motor engine seems far more intent on trashing itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yep. Agree wholeheartedly. That said, I loath the tdci dashboard. Glad its not just me..................That would be my reason for NOT buying one. Forget about what year it is, buy what you like best and buy on condition, and the condition that suits YOU. You could buy something a lot older, but has had lots spent on it, and may well be in better condition that either of those two ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I don't think I've read one comment I don't agree with, some good advice to heed. Whatever you choose, be sure to post up some pictures 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 So the answer is that there is no definitive answer. Generally speaking, like everything, it boils down to personal experience, preference and opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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