MECCANO Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I'm sure there's some one on here that can put me out of my misery. Excuse my gibberish, whilst i try explain what i mean When towing a trailer, does the GVWR of the trailer weight ( weight of trailer and its max load capacity rating combined , not its actual ) have to be lower than the towing vehicles recommended pulling weight? Even though the trailer + actual load is way bellow the recommended weight, and the train weight has a GVW less than 3500kg. For example. Car GVWR 1500kg Recomended towing weight 1300kg Trailer. GVWR 2000kg Actual trailer weight( with out load) 650kg. actual load on trailer 300kg. Therefore 650kg + 300kg = 950kg way bellow recommended 1300kg Thanks in advance Chris . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I'll state first that I do not know the law. I recently sat my E test. The reason being I was told I couldn't tow our car transporter even empty, because the law will assume that you are on route to load it fully. As our trailer has a 2ton capacity, that puts it over my limit. If that truly is the case, then as I understand what you're saying, then its over weight. I had the same argument about only putting a small weight on a much higher rated trailer, but it always came back to the same maximum capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I believe you can 'down rate' a trailer by putting on a replacement capacity plate reducing the GVWR to the level you can tow. I was told there is no legal minimum standard for a name plate. So gaffer tape over the original and write the weight you want on (as long as it is below the trailer design figure) and your good to go. Change driver to one who can pull the full weight - rip of the gaffer tape and you have 'up rated' the trailer back to original GVWR. Job done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 only if you have a post 1997 driving licence. this might help http://www.ntta.co.uk/ look under sub title 'the law' http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/identification_plates.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 To confuse matters the law changed fairly recently for post 97 drivers, you may now tow any combination you like on a b licence as long as the actual physical weight (ie the read out in kg from a weighbridge) of the combination doesn't exceed 3500kg, or you may tow up to 750kg mam behind up to 3500kg mam as per the old rules... It seems to be an attempt to simplify matters, I emailed the dvla to check and they confirmed the above, I took my 110 csw to the weighbridge, FYI it was 2400kg with me, half a tank of diesel and all my ropes, hi lift and toolbox on board, my unladen sankey was 360kg, so under the new rules I can carry up to 740kg of treasures and be legal... Full details on the direct.gov website! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 "Can of worms" doesn't even begin to describe it. With regard to the issue of whether the actual weight or potential max weight of the trailer is what counts, I've seen both referenced in official documents over the years. I just did the B+E, it's a piece of p***s and then you can tow practically anything you want, in Land Rover terms anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm thinking of doing the B&E. I learnt to drive tractors with a trailer some years back and should have done the test then. As soon as my back is working again I'll look into it. Heartening to hear it's not too difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I believe the law works on the plated weight irrespective of load, and the police "can" prosecute on this basis alone. However if you can prove that the actual weight was under (weighbridge slip) you would have a defence, although you would have to take it to court if the police decided to prosecute. In the OPs case he's referering to towing a 2000kg plated trailer behind a vehicle with a 1300kg towing limit. That may be easy to deal with as the empty trailer weighs 650kg (and may be displayed) and a prosecution is unlikely (IMO) as the police would be aware of the ease of the potential defence. Of course once there is a load on board it would be for the driver to show the weight was within the towing vehicles capacity to effect that defence. That may prove difficult if the combo' has had a prohibition notice slapped on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepé le Pew Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 In Holland its like this. You can tow a 2000Kg plated trailer behind a 1300Kg towing limit vehicle as long as you don't exceed that 1300Kg but you still need the correct licence (BE) even if that trailer(650Kg) is empty. I guess its the same in the UK. One Europe and all. Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm thinking of doing the B&E. I learnt to drive tractors with a trailer some years back and should have done the test then. As soon as my back is working again I'll look into it. Heartening to hear it's not too difficult. If you can reverse a trailer then it's fairly easy. The test is as much about your driving skills in general as about the actual technical skills involved in towing a trailer. The drop-and-hitch exercise is simple enough too, just remember what order to do things in. And the reversing manoeuvre again is easy, when I did mine the trailer had bits of tape on it which lines up with the mirror edge on the Disco and so you just applied the necessary lock at those points and it was almost automatic in going into the bay. I dabbled with towing small trailers before doing the test (which is actually more difficult of course behind a Land Rover, at least when it comes to reversing as you can't see the damn things) but most of my towing experience was with tractors in the woods - lots of threading timber trailers through tight trees makes for good practice! Fair enough tractors make it easier 'cause of the massive steering lock, good visibility, and the fact that the trailer is pivoted practically on the rear axle, but practice nonetheless. It's still worth having a 1/2 day or day with an instructor I think, not least because he'll get you out of the bad habits you will have picked up over the years (too close to the car in front when stopping in traffic was my vice - tyres and tarmac!). I think the cost for mine (1 day of tuition then test a few days later) was about £450, but luckily work paid for it. Now I'm happy I can hook 3,500kgs to the back of my 90 with no legal issues - at least not in terms of licensing anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hmm..took 2.5days for me to up to the instructors standard before doing my test, thats 9-4 days, and I thought I was a good driver! Was glad I booked the four day course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Cheers guys, B+E does look the way forward in the future. A quote from NTTA: Category B vehicles with larger trailers i.e. > 750kg, provided that the combined MAM does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the gross MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. To be able to tow combinations outside this ruling requires the passing of an additional test. I guess i can try to find a large size, low MAM trailer or just hire a transporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 From what the OP is asking.... my interpretation of the law is that the trailer has the potential capacity to weigh more than the max towing weight of the car so therefore can't be towed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 They do make things as clear as mud. But I agree, if the potential is there to exceed the capacity of the tow vehicle then you shouldn't be towing it. We have lots of younger employees who can't tow the mini excavators at work due to their licence restrictions, they aren't allowed to tow the empty trailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPLP Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Its going to get harder. All Id suggest to people is to invest in a full truck licence. I did this 3 years ago and it just removes all the worries when driving a car and trailer. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 You may have a point there...wish I did my HGV rather than my bike license all those years ago. I'd jump at the chance if I could convince my work to pay for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squaddiefox Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 You are better off doing the B+E licence or go further and do your C+E. Be careful what you do with subjects like this. If you get it wrong then it can be a big fine amongst other things. Even wrong advice can land someone in hot water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 True, our fleet operator has access to the DVLA for our driving entitlements now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPLP Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 You are better off doing the B+E licence or go further and do your C+E. Be careful what you do with subjects like this. If you get it wrong then it can be a big fine amongst other things. Even wrong advice can land someone in hot water. Sorry thats what I was meaning. C+E. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 From the GOV web site https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories Category B You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg). You can also tow heavier trailers if the total weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t more than 3,500kg. You can drive motor tricycles with a power output higher than 15kW if you are over 21 years old. Physically disabled drivers with provisional category B entitlement will also have provisional entitlement to ride category A1 or A motor tricycles. Category B+EYou can drive a category B vehicle with a trailer when they have a combined weight over 3,500kg. There is a link to a page where there is a comparison to the older type licences where the car was a category A which can be found here https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories I must admit I was a bit worried about towing my 3.5 tonne trailer and read through it 3 or 4 times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I've been pondering doing C+E, just because I can drive a fully loaded 110 train that way, which I don't think I can do on my ordinary B+E license (1999). It would also mean I could drive the 7.5 tonner which my license doesn't permit. Before I did my test the statistic quoted to me was a 60% fail rate on people putting in for their E test with no prior training by a driving instructor, and having done mine it's easy to see why. For instance, what are the four things you have to check on each front, side and rear of the trailer as part of the test? How do you approach a pedestrian crossing? Took me by surprise, and I would have failed the test had I not had 3 days training first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I am fortunate enough to have the gained my licence when you got all the towing entitlements, does up to 12000kg combined weight on c1e and d1e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 We are running into this as a regular problem as 4x4 Response. We are taking copies of licences to make sure we don't ask anyone to break the law. Thankfully I am old enough to have B+E and C1E on my licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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