Rock n Roll

[Mo Murphy]

How to calm the 90s roll ?

Since fitting the roll cage turning right or left feels more like hard a starboard or hard a port!

I don't really want to change springs as the ones I have give me the ride, height and load carrying that I need.

That, I think, only leaves anti roll bars. The sets I've seen are quite pricey and I'll need to buy a set of axle brackets to go with.

Any suggestions or from our learned readers on an anti rolling solution, those above or otherwise ?

TIA

Mo

[vulcan bomber]

Stiffer shocks? Koni Heavy Traks for instance.

[Anderzander]

I was going to say shocks.

On the 90 I have now I've fitted Bilstein B6 off road shocks - standard height - and they've made a huge difference. The car is much stiffer on the road but it doesn't seem to have lost any suppleness off road.

I don't think they are mad money either. One of those mods that has no compromise and you think: why didn't Land Rover fit these?

[Eightpot]

I got a used antiroll bar off a scrap disco and cut the chassis mounts off too, made much more difference than the HD shocks did on my top heavy camper. I just used a rear bar and that was ample.

[honitonhobbit]

The stiffest shock around at the moment is the OME

I'd go for Bilstein though - but they don't go further than standard to plus 2"

[vulcan bomber]

The stiffest shock around at the moment is the OME

I'd go for Bilstein though - but they don't go further than standard to plus 2"

The Koni's are adjustable...

[landroversforever]

I'd also ask what shocks you're running Mo?

When the cage was on my truck it used to be horrible on bends and roundabouts with the old Pro Comp shocks. When I went over to OME it transformed the ride

[Anderzander]

Seems strangely unfortunate that the cage increases your safety if you were to roll it - but peversley increases the likelihood of it happening

[Mo Murphy]

Thank you for your replies Gentlemen, you'll forgive me but I have to ask if shocks alone will make that much of a difference. TBH I hadn't considered shock absorbers as a solution and I'm not really too well versed in shock absorbery but if that is the answer then I'd be very keen as anti roll bars will limit my articulation off road and I do have a nice supple set up.

My current set up is defender front springs, Discovery rear springs with Armstrong shocks all of which is 5 years and 30000 miles or so old.

Mo

[vulcan bomber]

Your welcome to try my Koni's on the 110..... When the bloody things working.

[Anderzander]

I think the main role of a shock is to limit/control body movement - so well worth a go.

[landroversforever]

Mo, if you've got pin-pin mounts on the rear you're more than welcome to come over and try my OME as they're just sat on the shelf at the moment.

The main reason for dampers is to dampen the springs oscillations. Different compression and rebound valving can help with handing too

[Mo Murphy]

Thanks chaps that's very kind but I take it the barge isn't running David and Ross, I use standard eye and pin.

Much to ponder methinks. I'm just wary of spending a packet to find that they don't control the roll enough.

Mo

[missingsid]

Seems strangely unfortunate that the cage increases your safety if you were to roll it - but peversley increases the likelihood of it happening

If the cage has been fitted for offroad safety then modifying it to inprove on road drivability is counter productive. The cage will change the center of gravity hugely and on road capability will be compromised, the only true response is to drive acordingly if it has to be used on road.

A LR like any vehicle is a compromise of abilities, as you refine and improve one ability the others will reduce (suspension lift etc.) thats just life and why fully competative vehicles are not suitable road vehicles.

As a youth I had a fancy to run a full motocross bike on the road! This is a daft not to say illegal idea, now we have Super Moto and what changed, super sticky road tyres as the use of the bike changed so the offroad use is compromised.

After years/decades of enjoying my V8 S1 on and offroad I finally got a rear hoop and still want a front hoop, children and family need more protection than a young single guy thinks about, the change on road was aweful but a necessary evil! so now I have to drive slower on bends, you will get used to the new handling as well.

Marc.

[vulcan bomber]

Thanks chaps that's very kind but I take it the barge isn't running David and Ross, I use standard eye and pin.

Much to ponder methinks. I'm just wary of spending a packet to find that they don't control the roll enough.

Mo

She should be sorted soon, think we've melted a release bearing so assuming I get the welding on the Disco done today, the gearbox will come out tomorrow.

[dangerous doug]

fit some OLD MAN EMU dampers

The ride on my 110 is savage with them so I will be looking to add some weight to it to save my spine soon!

Sounds like a rollcage will do a pretty good job of it lol

[Anderzander]

As a youth I had a fancy to run a full motocross bike on the road! This is a daft not to say illegal idea, now we have Super Moto and what changed, super sticky road tyres as the use of the bike changed so the offroad use is compromised.

Marc.

I know what you mean Marc, and you can adjust to the compromise - but sometimes Its perhaps gone too far. Not that I think Mo's cage has.

On the motorbike subject I ran a race bike on the road - including running to bump start it, a narrow power and, close ratio box etc and filling it up with Avgas at the local airport. Not something I'd do now so readily.

[Anderzander]

What's the plan then Mo?

I mean they will make a difference - they are there to control body by dampening the springs - but it's just a risk I guess that they won't make enough of a difference relative to the cost.

I guess the obvious thing to say is though that with the Armstrong shocks, valved for the standard ride, the extra weight and leverage will be too much for them.

I get nervous about body roll these days after my crash. The 'moose scenario' is it called ?

[Snagger]

If you are happy with the suspension feel in all other respects and are just trying to reduce roll, then dampers are not the answer - they will make the ride harsher and articulation off road will require slower speed to accommodate the slower damping rate, which could have consequences for maintaining momentum. Stiff dampers will only reduce roll for momentary turns, like overtaking. Sustained turns will still produce the roll. The solution is antiroll bars, and if you venture off road much, the X Eng disconnecting bar is probably best.

[Retroanaconda]

I have a full set of Koni shocks sat in my garage of you want them Mo. I fitted them as everyone sang their praises but they were a worse ride than standard shocks (yes I tried the different settings).

If you think you can get on with them better by all means let me know and we'll figure out a way of getting them to you.

[Bowie69]

Kind of agree with snagger to be honest... Shocks may slow the initial alarming rock, but will not change the final resting lean for a given curve radius and speed.

To stop roll, you need anti roll bars or stiffer springs (and I gather you don't want that).

'Ah but they are has pressurised' I hear you say.... Well if I can compress a damper with less than my body weight, then I can't imagine it will do anything for a 2ton vehicle -gas pressurisation is to stop the oil aerating and aid cooling far more than holding the vehicle up.

[Anderzander]

I agree with that - I guess my experience though is that the initial response is what I want controlling as I can easily drive round the rest. Thus the moose comment. It's those sudden steering inputs to miss something, often on a neutral throttle, that can really upset the balance of the suspension - and my shocks have helped with that a lot.

[Bowie69]

Yep that makes sense

[Mo Murphy]

Hmmm, more food for thought. It seems that perhaps a solution utilising more than one substitution is going to be the answer.

To answer questions about the cage, it was fitted not for off road mishap but more for on road (I'm not entirely unfamiliar with slow rolls off road ?) should the worst happen on the autoroute on one of our foreign trips. Too many utility Land Rovers end up with the roof smashed down over the front seats thanks to a cast aluminium windscreen frame following a higher speed roll.

Considering your suggestions I consider that perhaps a compromise solution is the answer.

An anti roll bar on the back would compromise articulation but I have a rear locker which would go some way towards compensating for this and a set of stronger dampers to assist the rear anti roll bar will remove some ride comfort but improve stability.

There, you have helped me greatly. I appreciate you Gentlemen taking the time to type you thoughts, experiences and suggestions. Thank you.

Mo

[Snagger]

Mo, if you look at the X Eng anti roll bar as I said, you would see that you get the best of both worlds with a stiff ARB on road, disconnected in seconds for no impedance off road.