zardos Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 there is no grey area. it is safe and legal to tow 3.5 ton behind a discovery. that is what the law says and that is what matters. the caravan club 85% garbage came from a article published years ago and was simply there to guide people on what car to buy for their caravan so that the car had a easier time and a badly loaded trailer (like 50% of all caravans on the road because a lot of caravanners have no idea on how to load a trailer) has less effect on the car. rant over. sorry. The policeman or court might have a different opinion on whether is was safe, just because you saying it is safe does not hold much weight against industry recommendations (unless you are qualified expert in this area). The law says (as I listed) some things that are open to interpretation, it is not written in to law that it is safe to tow 3.5 ton behind a discovery (it is within one on the numerous rules that apply) I'm not saying it is against the law either, just one of the many things to consider. I must admit that it would be a very very slow day for a policemen to stop you for this, it is more likely to be used as a get out clause by insurers or used as additional arguments if you have done something else wrong (like caused an accident) or got the wobble on (which is more likely as the weight of the trailer approaches the tow vehicle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Bit of confusion here, an A - frame has no such restriction on speed although lots of other regulations apply. I think you may be confusing an A-frame with a dolly? in which case two limits apply, 20MPH on normal roads and 40MPH on the motorway But they are a b***** nightmare and your right.. the speed limits are worth observing :-) Towing using a 'A' frame or towing dolly [where part of the casulty vehicle is lifted from the road] https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/408927/a-frames-and-dollies.pdf A frames that are able to operate the towed vehicles brakes are OK, as the towed vehicle is then a braked trailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Re A frames, I don't have a towing dolly.... Does Anyone know how to remote brake a Landrover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 this site might be useful --- A frames http://www.smart-tow.com/ & braking system http://www.smart-tow.com/braking.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Re A frames, I don't have a towing dolly.... Does Anyone know how to remote brake a Landrover? In that case the speed restrictions mentioned above dont apply other than treating it as a trailer. Its not too hard to make the brakes work using an overun device, I've seen them using a cable operating the service brake with a clevis pin and loop welded to the pedal. But that was many years ago. its much more complex today as you need to be able to do auto reverse and keep the servo working .. and there is the thorny issue of trailer approval. Its not impossible but for a LR I'd buy a trailer rather than risk bodging a system to use a frame today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Always happy to read just how confusing it all can be... So.... listening to you guys, this is legal ? And this is also legal ? What about this then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 My far from understanding take on it is that they are all legal, but the last one may not be 'recommended'?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 looks good to me, and if the trailer is braked for the last one it should be... I said it is first but changed my mind and edited t say should be, since it depends on vehicle and trailer weight combined and I dont know the trailer weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Till you hit 70 when there are some additional hoops to jump to retain what you have had for years. I might be blind ! LOL but the only thing I've noticed on my over 70 liscence is I can no longer drive a single vehicle that's over 3.5 tonne, or have I missed something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 The caravan club is not an authority, they may suggest the 85% rule for caravans but if Land Rover say the vehicle is designed to tow 3,500kg then, license issues aside, you can tow 3,500kg all day long! If there was any chance that towing a trailer that weighs more than the tow vehicle was in any way dubious or unsafe, or likely to have the driver prosecuted for an unsafe outfit purely because of that factor, you can be damn sure that vehicle manufacturers would not open themselves to the risk by saying the vehicles were capable of it. In recent months many of the Jap pickups have been rated to tow 3.5T - so clearly it is not seen as an issue for motor manufacturers. If you want to take a 90 weighing 1,750kg and hang a trailer weighing 3,500kg off the back then so long as you are properly licensed, obeying the rules of the road, loaded up correctly, and the vehicle/trailer are in good condition, you are doing nothing wrong. And the vehicle will handle it fine - though you might be a bit slow up some of the hills! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 In that case the speed restrictions mentioned above dont apply other than treating it as a trailer. Its not too hard to make the brakes work using an overun device, I've seen them using a cable operating the service brake with a clevis pin and loop welded to the pedal. But that was many years ago. its much more complex today as you need to be able to do auto reverse and keep the servo working .. and there is the thorny issue of trailer approval. Its not impossible but for a LR I'd buy a trailer rather than risk bodging a system to use a frame today. thanks for that, I think I will keep the a frame just for recovery purposes and see if I can get a heavy trailer for more general use...seems to be the safer option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I might be blind ! LOL but the only thing I've noticed on my over 70 liscence is I can no longer drive a single vehicle that's over 3.5 tonne, or have I missed something ? I understand that some of the automatic grandfather rights that we (rightly) have due to when we passed our tests disappear as your licence renews at 70, this means there are some additional medical requirements imposed on us. Last time I looked I decided not to worry about it as the change is a good few years away for me and it can all have changed by then anyway. Its all on line and a google will find the answers ... today :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 thanks for that, I think I will keep the a frame just for recovery purposes and see if I can get a heavy trailer for more general use...seems to be the safer option. Its all about how much chance there is of it all going badly wrong, mechanically legally and morally, I live in a rural area and its amazing to see what people get away with and tow with impunity .. but every so often they have a purge at the local market and lots of people have troubles. If your going to tow on busy main roads the risk of all the above things is far greater. If you have room for a trailer and its not likely to get nicked its a good thing to have. If you only need it every so often a hire is a good idea.. horses for courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 RRC has a much lower towing limit, 2500kg iirc, so you are likely over that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 RRC has a much lower towing limit, 2500kg iirc, so you are likely over that... Interesting! I thought all coilers were 3500kg? It's the same running gear as a disco which does that much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Interesting! I thought all coilers were 3500kg? It's the same running gear as a disco which does that much? I asked about this many years ago at SVO when I was doing a job there and whilst the 'coffee chat' consensus was that of course the RRC was strong enough to tow whatever you hung on it, initially a precautionary approach had been taken due to the comparatively shallow chassis rails compared to other LR product. Marketing being what it is and with the benefit of service experience I guess the figure was amended in the production and of course before the first Discovery production. I had a similar discussion with Toyota about our Hilux fleet asking them how they had significantly increased the towing capacity in (about) 2012 - of course they never actually wrote anything down but intimated that it was always about legislation and marketing and never about actual engineering limits. I can certainly believe that most of the vehicles we are talking about could safely tow far in excess of the plated weight.... but not legally in this country. Lets face it, they arent designed to work at 3500Kg and be dangerous at 3501Kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Just as a remark as you guys are talking UK and we have the lot on French plates, they were all 3 legal. Unlike most people, we put the lot on a local weighbridge and make pictures so en route we can show what we know we are doing and have the Gendarmerie / Police Municipal / etc. ask themselves if they really want to look .... The RRC could tow 3.5 tonnes, as could the others, and be within the "Max Train Weight" (total weight car & trailer). The Series can tow 3.5 tonnes, too, here but I'd rather not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 The RRC could tow 3.5 tonnes, as could the others, and be within the "Max Train Weight" (total weight car & trailer). The Series can tow 3.5 tonnes, too, here but I'd rather not... Every series LR (2 and 3) I have owned stated on the plate on the bulkhead that max towing weight is 2 imperial tons, which is 2032 KG. A 2.25 petrol would find this a pretty asthmatic experience, especially if there were hills involved. We need to abide by what a manufacturer has written down if we wish to avoid trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Yes. I know. However, my Series has no weights in the VIN plate (original one) and the type approval per country eventually rules. And to add some fun - that is usually different per country.. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 My 109 is plated for 4tonnes of trailer; 6.7 tones gross train weight. Hard work, but with a balanced load, doable. 11 inch front brakes, twin leading shoes, servo. It stops well. The TDI helps. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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