TD5 & Auto in a defender.

[Badger110]

Toying with some ideas, one being moving away from a manual box due to ongoing medical problems.

 

TDCI autos aren't too good unless you spend mega money so i'm sitting here looking at TD5 autos. 

 

I've owned TD5's and enjoyed them

 

The other option is a V8 with an auto

 

Should i just shelve this idea as stupid or is there some merit in running a TD5 with an auto in a defender?

 

 

 

 

[reb78]

@V8 Freakhas spent a long time perfecting the auto/Td5 setup in his 90. It works really well. 

[Chicken Drumstick]

The auto works in the Disco 2 with the TD5. But mpg and performance suffer. A juiced up Td5 and a tweaked auto box might work. There are some aftermarket controllers to give you manual control and the like. 
 

However is mpg isn’t going to be a blocker. A 4.6 RV8 will be a nicer drive IMO. 

[Litch]

I run an auto in my 300TDi 90 and it is fantastic, wouldn't go back to a manual.

[cackshifter]

If you're going to all that trouble there's always the M57/6HP

[jeremy996]

One of my fellow 4x4 response members has a TD5 with an Ashcroft installed auto that he raves about. 

[reb78]

V8Freaks setup is using all Ashcroft parts on his TD5 - Dave Ashcroft will know the setup so worth talking to him about it.

[Badger110]

4 hours ago, Litch said:

I run an auto in my 300TDi 90 and it is fantastic, wouldn't go back to a manual.

Which box did you have in that? 

[Badger110]

I’ve spent too much time and money on the wish list at Ashcroft 

[Chicken Drumstick]

31 minutes ago, Badger110 said:

Which box did you have in that? 

I'd guess it is just the non electronic ZF 4 speed as per RRC.

With the Tdi you don't have any sensors to be able to program the gearbox. So it is very sold school and largely unresponsive. The Td5 can make use of the electronic control variants of the ZF. Which allow you to program different shift points, reactions or even semi- full manual control via a lever or even paddles if you wanted.

 

Guess it depends what you are wanting from the setup really. But yes, I'd advise speaking to Dave Ashcroft on this. But I'm sure he'll point you down the Td5 route over the Tdi.

[mickeyw]

All this talk of electronic gadgetry sounds like it would get expensive.

Surely you can pick up a whole 3.9 V8 D1 auto for sensible money, and just throw the necessary bits at the Defender  and sell off the leftovers. All that money saved on shiny parts from Ashcrofts would buy you a fair bit of petrol 

That's what I did with my old 90, except I bought a RRC.

[Litch]

1 hour ago, Badger110 said:

Which box did you have in that? 

It is an Ashcroft supplied conversion using the 4HP22, now I have the gearing right (see below) it is a fantastic set-up and I wouldn't go back to the R380. 

Back in 2004 I had fitted by LR a brand-new LRGP supplied out of the crate 300TDi / R380 / 1.2 and along with the 265/75x16's it was the perfect set-up. When I did the auto conversion in 2016 I was unsure whether to stick with the 1.2 or fit a 1.4 so I left the 1.2 in place as this was the easier option at the time (the ZF has a higher final drive ration than the R380). I ran it for about 12-months before deciding that it was just too high geared (it would not pull top gear and it wouldn't lock-up until about 55MPH) so I fitted a 1.4 which transformed the vehicle and I now couldn't be happier. 😁

[Chicken Drumstick]

49 minutes ago, mickeyw said:

All this talk of electronic gadgetry sounds like it would get expensive.

Surely you can pick up a whole 3.9 V8 D1 auto for sensible money, and just throw the necessary bits at the Defender  and sell off the leftovers. All that money saved on shiny parts from Ashcrofts would buy you a fair bit of petrol 

That's what I did with my old 90, except I bought a RRC.

Yes it can get pricey for controllers and the like. Although you could use the same on a V8 auto too. Or you could as you suggest, just buy the entire lot out of a Disco (D2 in this case) and use the factory setup. It really depends what the op is wanting from the setup.

 

Personally I can appreciate autos. But I'm yet to drive an automatic car that wouldn't be improved with a manual gearbox. But if going auto you may well want to maximise the control and shifting patterns. Something you can't always do on factory setups. Although 'modern' sports cars tend to offer this out of the box to a certain extent.

Controllers would be to allow you to lock it in say 2nd or 3rd and floor it without it kicking down. Or firming up the shift speed under certain conditions or via a button selection. Or making it smoother and locking the converter up at lower speeds, etc.

[mickeyw]

32 minutes ago, Litch said:

When I did the auto conversion in 2016 I was unsure whether to stick with the 1.2 or fit a 1.4 so I left the 1.2 in place as this was the easier option at the time (the ZF has a higher final drive ration than the R380). I ran it for about 12-months before deciding that it was just too high geared (it would not pull top gear and it wouldn't lock-up until about 55MPH) so I fitted a 1.4 which transformed the vehicle and I now couldn't be happier. 😁

I went through this exact same path with the V8. Unless you have little wheels a 1.4 is the way to go.
Having an auto in a Defender (with the correct gearing) totally transforms the drive. No heavy clutch makes traffic jams a breeze. No slow agricultural gear changes. 

[pat_pending]

I have a 200tdi auto 110, as others have said, the auto transforms the vehicle.

You won't regret going auto.

However, with the push towards hybrid and full electric vehicles I can see existing stuff slowly priced off the roads by tax and fuel price increases, starting with diesel.

With that in mind I'd question how much money I'd invest in a diesel engine vehicle right now.

3.9 V8 and auto from a Disco'/RRC would be way simpler and cheaper long term IMO.

Also with the V8 you still have the options of going up both in engine power/size and gearbox control if you feel you need it.

[Badger110]

Price is a factor as with anything.

 

Just shy of £7000 will get me a TD5 electronic gearbox fitted to the current TDCI built and fitted by Ashcroft.  That's the top end of the scale which is a large wedge but the easiest solution as i don't have to think about swapping anything, i hand it over, they do the work and i get a controllable TD5 best of both worlds Auto box in the Landy.

The other options are any number of Tdi engines and manual autobox

D2 Auto and Td5 with electronic auto box 

V8 with an auto ( electronic? ) box.

I've chatted with someone who is interested in my loom and parts should i go along the route of swapping the engine out for another. 

 

 

 

[ashtrans]

Yes we can fit it for you but if you want to keep the cost down you can get 90% from a MOT failed disco and just buy the Compushift, you can then either make your own interior or we can supply later as the budget allows 

[Badger110]

That’s food for thought...does supplying a box help reduce the cost of the tdci conversion? 

[Soupersteve]

Good morning all 

Im just making a loom for TD5 Auto in to a Competition Vehicle

Im trying to find the terminals for the injector harness plug.

does anyone know where I might find these?

Many thanks 

Steve 

[EeEk]

On 2/12/2021 at 3:50 PM, Litch said:

It is an Ashcroft supplied conversion using the 4HP22, now I have the gearing right (see below) it is a fantastic set-up and I wouldn't go back to the R380. 

Back in 2004 I had fitted by LR a brand-new LRGP supplied out of the crate 300TDi / R380 / 1.2 and along with the 265/75x16's it was the perfect set-up. When I did the auto conversion in 2016 I was unsure whether to stick with the 1.2 or fit a 1.4 so I left the 1.2 in place as this was the easier option at the time (the ZF has a higher final drive ration than the R380). I ran it for about 12-months before deciding that it was just too high geared (it would not pull top gear and it wouldn't lock-up until about 55MPH) so I fitted a 1.4 which transformed the vehicle and I now couldn't be happier. 😁

I have 300tdi, 4hp22, 1.2  all from a disco in mine.   Also same size tyres.

Quote

wouldn't lock-up until about 55MPH

I have that problem

Im thinking 35" tyres and a 1.6 transfer box unless a rotton td5 auto disco shows up

[RedLineMike]

@Badger110 have you considered a M57 6hp 6 speed auto conversion?

[Badger110]

10 hours ago, RedLineMike said:

@Badger110 have you considered a M57 6hp 6 speed auto conversion?

It is something that has piqued my interest. 
 

@LiamC thread is very interesting although he’s run a manual, I think more reading is due on the auto box ecu set up though 

[RedLineMike]

ive been speaking to marcus at MW machines https://www.facebook.com/mwmachines4x4

about a kit to convert my 110, i believe at the moment hes concentrating on supplying complete turnkey kits for people to fit themselves

[Badger110]

1 hour ago, RedLineMike said:

ive been speaking to marcus at MW machines https://www.facebook.com/mwmachines4x4

about a kit to convert my 110, i believe at the moment hes concentrating on supplying complete turnkey kits for people to fit themselves

 

Looks like they might be coming up with a auto kit including an engine soon.   

 

They have a video of a Puma with a M57 and 8 speed auto box, the ECU looks to be done by Futuranet Ltd who i believe is admin over at Def2

 

https://fb.watch/3NhzGyZE0h/

 

That is ridiculously fast

 

 

[ianmayco68]

I’m going down the M57 route in my 200tdi 110 , but I’ve gone for the 4HP24 out of a v8 as I’ve got an earlier engine, Ashcrofts do a backing plate to mount it and compushift to run it . There’s 2 threads on here about fitting the m57 one tells you all the pin outs for the ecu so you can mod the loom yourself, can’t remember which one .