Daily driver conundrum

[Greenie91]

Hello all, 

I have had a 300tdi hard top which I love so much that I’m driving it more than my main car. 
 

That being said, driving it more than 20 mins is a bit of a pig, mostly because of the noise and vibrations. 

So I love it, but I’m not enjoying it!! 

Will upgrades make a 300tdi anywhere as civilised as a Puma?

- soundproofing

- overdrive

Would I be better served selling the tdi and getting a Puma or even a TD5? The price difference is enormous and I do wonder about the longevity of the Puma - they are getting older every day. 
 

Appreciate all input. I have been looking at the forums but information seems to be from a few years ago when the TD5 and Puma had leas miles on them.

Cheers,

Greenie

[Anderzander]

16 hours ago, Greenie91 said:

noise and vibrations.

Are you certain that the noise and vibrations are all the engine?  

Lots of people used the 300 (and 200) as a daily vehicle - so you shouldn’t need to change engine to get a vehicle you can cope with.

Is the engine well serviced and running properly ? Has it been messed with ? Are the mounts in good condition ? 

Do you have any mats / carpets / soundproofing in? If not have you looked at say the Wright Off-Road Kit ? That can make a big difference

Is the rest of your running gear in good condition ? Diffs, props and so forth can create vibration and a lot of noise.

What tyres are you running ? Are you getting a lot of road noise?

If it’s a hard top things like a big piece of stable matting in the back can make a big difference to the noise levels inside.

All of that said … the 300 in a Defender will never be quiet by the standards of a modern car … but 20 mins seems extremely short a time to be happy in it.

[Landy7]

I have a 200tdi and last year added a puma to the garage for more comfort driving. I can tell you that the difference is not that huge, it's still a Defender.. Yes it's a bit more quite and the 6th gear makes it less noisy on the highway but it's not like you're suddenly driving a Range Rover. I honestly enjoyed driving the 200tdi more so I sold the puma again.

But there are a lot of things you can do to improve comfort, like mentioned in the post above me. I added the moulded matting from Wright Off-Road (wrightoffroad.com) (Exmoor sells them too but they are the same and if you order directly from Wright you can get a discount) and that decreased transmission noise in the cabine for sure. Also used Glencoyne engine mounts which reduced engine vibration to the chassis. I'm now replacing the suspension with Fox Shocks & OME springs, that transformed the ride on my puma so I expect the same for my 200tdi. The puma on stock suspension drove exactly the same as my 200tdi on stock suspension.

So yes, a puma is a little more quite and adds a little comfort but it really isn't that huge of a difference, so don't be disappointed when you buy one.

[cackshifter]

Just as a note, I think the Glencoyne mounts don't fit 300tdis. @Landy7, would be interested if you can remember exactly which springs & shocks it was and is it for 90 or 110?

[reb78]

Its all been said above I think.

Before I took it off the road for a chassis change, I was doing 25k miles a year in my 32 year old 110. I have a D2 and a D3 as well but always chose the 110. Its a perfectly decent place to be if the vehicle is all up to scratch.

I test drove a TDCi in 2014/15 with a view to buying one brand new.... we decided not to in the end but what struck me was, as others have said, it really wasn't any quieter or more refined than my old Tdi! So my advice is stick with what you have and follow the advice above... 

[Maverik]

Also echo the comments above, Td5's and Puma's in my opinion are just as noisy as a 300tdi in a lot of ways, I'd also argue you'd inherit a much poorer build quality in the Puma too.

I run my 200tdi 90 as my daily drive. I've worked hard on the vibration/sound insulation topic and I've been rewarded with a pretty sustainable driving experience, I love driving my 90 don't ask me why as I have no idea.

There are some really good products out there that aren't necessarily cheap and some will demand a little more effort than other, but they will improve your driving experience no end.

And it will certainly work out cheaper than another Defender.

I'd also point out, that the quest for a quieter truck will not be solved magically with one product, you need to work at it from lots of different angles.

But I think its well worth pursuing. 

 

[FridgeFreezer]

There's some stuff you can do but you'll never make a Defender as quiet and smooth as a more modern vehicle with a soft-mounted body and a more refined engine & interior... there's not even enough space in a Defender to fit the extra 100kg of carpet & sound-deadening that's in even a Classic Range Rover never mind D3/D4.

Our V8 is a lot nicer than a TDi in terms of general rattling and noise but once you're up to speed you realise that the gearbox & transfer case make quite a noise of their own - we have Wright off-road mats and some sound deadening under the tunnel that made a big difference but it's never going to be a Bentley.

[smallfry]

I ran a 200 Tdi 90 as a daily driver back in the early 90s. I drove a lot of miles in it, long distance too, and always enjoyed it.

Sure it was a noisy bugger, but not that bad. I dont remember vibration being a problem. The suspension of course is a bit harsh, but its never going to be a limousine, is it ? Dont waste TOO much money trying to make it into one. It is what it is, which is why you like it.

Why would you even want a GHASTLY Puma dash ????? Yuk Yuk Yukkety Yuk.

Only problem I can see is that if you are a bit of a lump and over about 5 foot 10 is going to be a bit cramped, alongside the perpetual elbow room problem.

[Quagmire]

I found that putting silentcoat sound deadening matting on the underside of the floors, seatbox, trans tunnel and footwells made a noticeable difference to the transmission noise in my V8 powered 90.

If I did the rest of the vehicle and put some other layers of foam, carpet etc then I expect it would be much better. As it is, it has no carpet or headlining so is not the quietest...

[Tanuki]

I'd suggest as a first step checking the running-gear: a while back a friend had a 300TDi which was truly, horribly noisy at speed. You could feel the vibrations theough the seat-base and I knew something was deeply wrong.

I investigated and found two propshaft UJs to be essentilly solid; one had a cup whose needle-rollers had seized to the spider and so the cup was 'articulating' by rotating in the yoke.

I condemned both propshafts! New ones [genuine GKN Driveline] made things a lot nicer - and safer too [nothing good has ever been reported about the disintegration of a UJ at speed and wntering the passenger-compartment].

Fitting modern "road biased" tyres cut the Decibels too: if most of your driving is at 60-75MPH on open roads you don't need knobblies.

[monkie]

I painted the underside of the seabox, floors and transmission tunnel with a sound deadening paint then used dodo mat (off ebay) in the cab area. That made quite a difference. Then a while after I applied the dodo mat to the entire roof and the back (I have a 110 hard top). The difference was incredible once the roof and van sides stopped acting like a drum. 

[rednaxela]

The first 20 mins are my least favourite! The more warmed through everything is, the better. Why not look at it that way and combine it with your love of the vehicle.

[Lightning]

There's a lot you can do to improve a Defender as a daily driver.

Soundproofing, as above, fit a full carpet set if it doesn't have one, fit a rubber seal along the rear edge of the bonnet (between it and the bulkhead)

Fit rear headlining (if not already fitted)

Get the heater working to full efficiency 

Fit a heated windscreen and cruise control (if available for your model)

Replace worn drive members and other parts as required to reduce transmission clunks and backlash, making it nicer generally to drive.

Be content at 60mph on the inside lane of the motorway.

Watch the Audis Mercedes BMW's fly past, think about their £300 per month PCP payments, and the fact that your Land Rover will still be going strong, long after those cars have been recycled into drinks cans

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Lightning

[monkie]

6 hours ago, Lightning said:

There's a lot you can do to improve a Defender as a daily driver.

Soundproofing, as above, fit a full carpet set if it doesn't have one, fit a rubber seal along the rear edge of the bonnet (between it and the bulkhead)

Fit rear headlining (if not already fitted)

Get the heater working to full efficiency 

Fit a heated windscreen and cruise control (if available for your model)

Replace worn drive members and other parts as required to reduce transmission clunks and backlash, making it nicer generally to drive.

Be content at 60mph on the inside lane of the motorway.

Watch the Audis Mercedes BMW's fly past, think about their £300 per month PCP payments, and the fact that your Land Rover will still be going strong, long after those cars have been recycled into drinks cans

 

Good post. Only one point, the £300 is more like £500 these days 

[landroversforever]

I think my memory serves me correctly…@TSD whilst his is an ibex, made a comment a while back that if you take depreciation into account, it was cheaper running the ibex than anything else ‘normal’ 

[FridgeFreezer]

14 hours ago, rednaxela said:

The first 20 mins are my least favourite! The more warmed through everything is, the better. Why not look at it that way and combine it with your love of the vehicle.

Webasto Thermo-Tops are cheap and make winter motoring lovely - preheat the coolant so you have instant heater and a warmed-up engine.

[TSD]

There's many ways to slice it, but it was certainly no more spendy than many of the other options. But this reasoning is all after the fact, I drove the Ibex because I didn't see any point in spending 3 hours a day in something I hated, while the Ibex sat at home waiting for me to find a day off.

I would have owned the Ibex anyway, so to commute in it I had effectively zero purchase price, zero tax and zero insurance. 30mpg and 6k servicing (done by me).

I was driving ~35k year. So about £7000 in diesel, call it 7500/year to allow for the odd replacement gearbox .

That fuell bill is scary, should I lease something that does 60mpg, and save 3500/year in diesel?

I don't know what sort of wheeled horror I could lease for 300/month with that annual mileage, but I think I prefer my choice so far

(Even adding in a brand new TGV engine, R380, LT230, diffs and shafts, over the 5 years I was doing that mileage, I reckon it still looks good.)

@FridgeFreezer drove a 'scrap' Freelander for many years/miles - that was probably way cheaper than the Ibex even.

 

[FridgeFreezer]

49 minutes ago, TSD said:

@FridgeFreezer drove a 'scrap' Freelander for many years/miles - that was probably way cheaper than the Ibex even

It certainly would have been very cheap if I'd been able to resist taking it off-road...

Although having done that model of commuting I'm quite liking the middle ground of having a fun-but-practical normal car (Mini Cooper) for commuting as it removes the off-road temptation, and keeping the Land Rovers for weekends... guess I'm going a bit soft in my old age.

[TSD]

24 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

... guess I'm going a bit soft in my old age.

You're not alone, I've spent the last 140k miles turning a mint D3 into scrap metal, but on the same basis - it was something I fancied driving, rather than some ghastly commuter box I rented.

[reb78]

11 minutes ago, TSD said:

You're not alone, I've spent the last 140k miles turning a mint D3 into scrap metal, but on the same basis - it was something I fancied driving, rather than some ghastly commuter box I rented.

I am doing the same (at least until the 110 is back on the road). Your advice re the D3 - to stop worrying about it going wrong and enjoy it - was good advice.