D3… yes or no?

[Keeper96]

Hi all, long time Land Rover sufferer, had a 300tdi 90 for 10 years, a 2.25 series 3 for around 7 years and also had a couple of discovery 1 and 2s in that time. I’m looking to swap my everyday bmw estate for something larger and was considering a decent spec D3. 
 

just how much of a money pit is the D3? Hear lots of horror stories of massive bills and unsolvable electrical issues but I’d like some real world input on reliability and running costs. 
 

im decent with a spanner so can tackle most jobs in the garage which I know helps keep costs reasonable 

[David Sparkes]

You might like to research through the YouTube channel 'LRTime'. They have run a D3 for several years, do ALL their own maintenance, and are humorous, in a Germanic sort of way. They still run a D3, shortly to undergo a full 'body-off' service overhaul.

While I'm not into D3s, or D4s - their other LR passion, I do enjoy watching their weekly releases.
I recall two pieces of advice, buy a Diagnostic tool BEFORE you buy a car as this enables you to check the non-obvious health of any example before actually buying it.
Commit the web address of Disco3.co.uk (or is it .com?) to your browser bookmarks because, in their words, putting a fault code into their search engine enables you find the cure that someone else found worked 10 years ago.

Regards.

[Snagger]

I disliked them when they launched, but they have grown on me to a point.  Still too complex for my liking, but I think if you systematically go through a good one and fill each wiring plug with di-electric grease to keep them in good order and then keep on top of the maintenance, like cleaning the suspension compressor air filter, then it can be significantly more reliable.  They are very capable when working correctly.

Be careful about engine type.  Some have reputations for all sorts of things, and one of them, possibly D4 rather than D3, snaps crank shafts frequently, and that is not due to driving style or maintenance issues.  This was covered in the LR Time videos David recommended (they are very good videos, all spoken in English despite being in Germany, and the D3 rebuild has been underway for a few weeks now, so good timing for you).  David’s recommendation of buying (or borrowing) a decent diagnostics reader before buying a vehicle, to test candidates properly, is excellent advice.  A couple of hundred pounds, for a high end one could save you thousands down the line and will be well used regardless.

[Maverik]

I think they're great trucks, not owned one myself, but driven plenty, super capable on and off road. Older ones do seem to have some rust issues and require weld repair, and then there's the fuel bill, especially auto's which I think most of the later ones are.

Personally I've been driving my D1 300tdi a lot recently and its such a nice vehicle to drive, but not all that refined, but you can get some of the highest spec Td5 D2's now for relative peanuts, you can get a lot of car for your money, a bit of a different league to a D3.

[rusty_wingnut]

Forget a D3 and treat yourself to the nicest TDV8 L322 you can find.....

[Keeper96]

51 minutes ago, rusty_wingnut said:

Forget a D3 and treat yourself to the nicest TDV8 L322 you can find.....

Don’t tempt me… this whole process has just been sped up by my car being written off last night outside my house 

[L19MUD]

3 hours ago, rusty_wingnut said:

Forget a D3 and treat yourself to the nicest TDV8 L322 you can find.....

plus 1 for this. You can get a lot of 3.6 TDV8 for not a lot of money now.

[rusty_wingnut]

4.4 flavour is best IMO

[discomikey]

With any vehicle you can get a lemon or a honey. These are no different. 

If you're not a home mechanic you can expect some relatively large (in comparison to old defender and disco) repair bills for items such as, for example; inlet manifolds etc. but realistically, if you're even a half decent home mechanic you can easily repair/maintain these vehicles. I've done a few of the jobs most complain about, and whether or not my mindset is more laid back, I still feel like a lot of folk make a massive fuss over jobs that are at worst, a bit fiddly, or require a degree of methodical thinking.

We've had a D3, which was almost entirely faultless even at 280k miles with the exception of the clutch pedal bracket fatiguing to failure, and the parking sensors only working on hot days, something I never bothered to even look at diagnosing

We've now got a D4 which I bought knowing it needed inlet manifolds doing, and is much nicer to be in and see. It occasionally goes into limp mode still but I'm 90% sure I know the cause to be a sticking crossover valve. not the end of the world. 

 

The air suspension isn't as complex and troublesome as you might think on them either. 

[reb78]

1 hour ago, L19MUD said:

plus 1 for this. You can get a lot of 3.6 TDV8 for not a lot of money now.

Plus one for that as I am looking to sell mine... as I have too many cars! Haha.

I also have a D3 and its a fine car and nowhere near the trouble I was expecting.

[L19MUD]

44 minutes ago, rusty_wingnut said:

4.4 flavour is best IMO

Agreed but a 4.4 is not D3 money

[simonr]

I have a 2005 L320 RRS V6 which is essentially a D3 with different bodywork.  I kind of wish I'd bought a D3 as I think they've aged better!

On the advice of a firend (who knows more about D3, 4 & RRS than anyone has a right to) I bought one with over 100k on the clock.  He said most terminal problems occur before 100k. 

When I bought it, it needed new wishbone bushes.

Since then (I've owned it 11 years) it's had:

• Replacement air tank for suspension (it had rusted through)
• Replacement fuel tank guard (also rusted)
• Changed the filter-drier on the suspension compressor.  Nobody ever does this & it kills the pump if not done.
• Front & Rear Timing Belts - scheduled rather than due to failure.
• Intercooler hose (it split)
• Steering wheel clock spring (when you get an Airbag warning or your cruise control doesn't work). Cheap & easy to fit.
• Steering Position Sensor
  According to the internet, this is a difficult & very expensive problem!  However, it's just a magnet ring slipping on the steering column shaft.  I glued it back in place with some Jenolite Epoxy Putty which took 30mins without dismantling anything, just reaching into the footwell.  It's been good ever since.

Nothing very major.

There have been a few recalls over the years.  Any LR main dealer will fix these for free so worth going through the list & getting everything done.

Most of the supposedly 'body off' jobs can be done with it on.  However, you may need arms like Mr Tickle to do some of them!  It's not hard to remove, just you need a lift. 

It's a lovely car to drive & the best tow vehicle I've owned.  I used to average 23mpg on All Terrain Tyres.  I replaced these with more road biased ones with an 'A' Fuel economy rating and my average has improved to 29mpg.  With all the traction control trickery, it still seems quite capable on a muddy field.  Just shows what a big difference tyres make!

I agree about buying (or borrowing) a diagnostic tool when you go to look.  However, most of the problems are easy to fix, so worth more as a bargaining chip!

 

[simonr]

57 minutes ago, discomikey said:

We've had a D3, which was almost entirely faultless even at 280k miles with the exception of the clutch pedal bracket fatiguing to failure, and the parking sensors only working on hot days, something I never bothered to even look at diagnosing

That's quite a common problem!  The sensors don't like being jet-washed & get water ingress.  On hot days, the water evaporates & is less conductive. After market sensors are inexpensive & take minutes to fit.  I diagnosed & fixed this on someone elses - and made a point of not jet-washing mine!

[ThreePointFive]

10 hours ago, Snagger said:

 one of them, possibly D4 rather than D3, snaps crank shafts frequently, and that is not due to driving style or maintenance issues.  

Weird, I thought it was the 2.7 that was more prone to this.

Definitely true to say you can't oil change your way out of it or drive with a feathery touch, not that the Jag forums understand that. 

[David Sparkes]

42 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said:

Weird, I thought it was the 2.7 that was more prone to this.

Definitely true to say you can't oil change your way out of it or drive with a feathery touch, not that the Jag forums understand that. 

According to LR Time it is the twin turbo diesel 3 litre that is more prone to snapping the crank, and also splitting the inlet manifolds. The 2.7 is more 'reliable' in both areas, but the3.0 does have noticeably more power, which LR Time Christian appreciates.

Regards.

[Keeper96]

4 hours ago, L19MUD said:

plus 1 for this. You can get a lot of 3.6 TDV8 for not a lot of money now.

Definitely tempted by the 3.6tdv8 now I’ve spotted a few haha 

[Exmoor Beast]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:33 PM, simonr said:

 

• Steering Position Sensor
  According to the internet, this is a difficult & very expensive problem!  However, it's just a magnet ring slipping on the steering column shaft.  I glued it back in place with some Jenolite Epoxy Putty which took 30mins without dismantling anything, just reaching into the footwell.  It's been good ever since.

 

 

Hi Simon, this is interesting, my D3 ABS is coming on on left hand uphill hairpin bends which I am told is a sign of the steering sensor being a menace. I looked at the cost of a new one and decided it wasn't really that annoying afterall. Looks like a few minutes with the blood rushing to my head in the footwell might be worth trying... 🙂

Will

[simonr]

1 hour ago, Exmoor Beast said:

Hi Simon, this is interesting, my D3 ABS is coming on on left hand uphill hairpin bends which I am told is a sign of the steering sensor being a menace. I looked at the cost of a new one and decided it wasn't really that annoying afterall. Looks like a few minutes with the blood rushing to my head in the footwell might be worth trying... 🙂

Will

It really is very easy!  Access is restricted though.  I took a load of photos from the footwell, looking up so I knew what I was feeling.  I could definitely feel the magnet ring was loose.  Didn't have to stick my head in the footwell at all!

There's a bit of plastic trim on the RHS of the steering wheel, just above the footwell that pulls off.  That gives a little bit of visability too.

I just rolled a ball of jenolite about the size of a marble then squidged it between the tabs on the magnet ring & the steering column.  Then another one on the opposite side.  It didn't look pretty, but does the job really well.

It's worth replacing the clock-spring in the steering wheel at the same time (only cost a few quid for a patterned one) as they seem to go around the same mileage.

I'd been plagued with this problem for years but it was only when one of the garages who failed to fix it explained it was the magnet ring, but the whole steering column would have to be replaced.  I thought s*d that!  I might as well try gluing it! 

[simonr]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:43 AM, Snagger said:

possibly D4 rather than D3, snaps crank shafts frequently

I believe this happened with both D3 & 4.  I suspect there were two (or more) crank shaft suppliers or QA problems and only some were affected.  The problem always seems to manifest in the first 100k miles - so if it has more mileage on it than that, it's most likely a good one.

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, simonr said:

I believe this happened with both D3 & 4.  I suspect there were two (or more) crank shaft suppliers or QA problems and only some were affected.  The problem always seems to manifest in the first 100k miles - so if it has more mileage on it than that, it's most likely a good one.

Mate's D3 turned into an expensive rattle at about 140K .

[TSD]

On 9/21/2023 at 12:45 PM, Exmoor Beast said:

my D3 ABS is coming on on left hand uphill hairpin bends which I am told is a sign of the steering sensor being a menace.

The other thing that can cause this is the bushes parting on the rear upper wishbones. I was shocked how knackered mine were, and I noticed no other symptoms. In fact I think the TC cutting in masked the real problem - the TC notices the movement in the back end just before the driver does and takes control, leaving the driver unable to tell what happened first.

Edited September 23, 2023 by TSD

[Exmoor Beast]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:37 AM, TSD said:

The other thing that can cause this is the bushes parting on the rear upper wishbones. I was shocked how knackered mine were, and I noticed no other symptoms. In fact I think the TC cutting in masked the real problem - the TC notices the movement in the back end just before the driver does and takes control, leaving the driver unable to tell what happened first.

Cheers, I'll check this, only a couple of months past its last MOT so bushes should all be ok, it was doing it pre-MOT.

Will 🙂

[discomikey]

definitely worth checking all bushes. 

L319 L320 platform, (D3, D4 and RRS) are particularly picky when it comes to wheel alignment. If the sensors don't see what they need to see the car will throw a fit, drop the suspension, thrown ABS/TC/HDC faults and if automatic limit the transmission to third gear. If it happens that can get in your head expecting an expensive fix but always check alignment and bushes first. Oh, and brake light bulbs..