Alistair P Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 All You may be interested to know that two days ago I visited the new Scorpion shop front in Cheshunt. It isn't formally open yet as it is still being fitted out internally and externally (name boards aren't yet up and the only way you would know what the shop is is by peering through the security screen). In the time I was there the telephone never stopped ringing with enquiries and there was one mail order sale in addition to mine over the counter. The mail order element of the operation appears relatively healthy. The stock warehouse is now located in an idustrial estate in potters bar. When I poked my head inside it seemed chaotic (due to the recent transfer of stock from one location to another) but otherwise well stocked. I hate to be the one dissenting voice in what appears to be the the Scrap Iron Depreciation Society, however I have had kit off of them several times in the past and never had any problems whatsoever with the equipment or delivery. My only observation is that they have on occasion given the impression over the phone that they are less than willing to waste time answering questions about their kit.... although were more than enthusiastic about taking my money. I strongly suspect that this largely because they take the view that their kit has historically been so heavily pushed in all the Land Rover magazines that I should be able to read the published article to find the answer I need, without bothering them with 'stupid' questions. Whilst you could put this down to 'poor customer service' perhaps if the LR magazines stop collectively acting like the marketing and propoganda arm of Scorpion Racing in a manner which is borderline on counter-competitive, that company will actually have to work on its customer service a bit harder. It might also mean that the magazines cover the full range of products available from smaller companies which are often better quality and much less expensive. The other criticism of Scorpion appears to be that they have nicked other people's ideas e.g. the X Brake and Equipe product line. I can see the irritation (e.g. from X Eng) if your product which you have worked hard to develop is knocked off by someone else. The flip side of the coin however is that a bit of competition keeps the cost of product down for the consumer - i.e. you and me. If you need an example of this look at the vastly - and some might say unjustifiably and even ridicuously - expensive Equipe product line. How this company survives with these prices (£550 for their rear A frame?!) is completely beyond me, hoever If a UK company can indiginously produce the same kit at a more moderate price then ultimately it is OK with me. Alistair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I have no intention of supporting a business that appears to have done a pre-pack administration deal, leaving a significant number of suppliers with considerable debts. My personal position regarding this is the apparent lack of honourable behaviour,where a company re-emerges with similar management/ownership however disguised, which I find very distasteful and ethically unacceptable. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 The other criticism of Scorpion appears to be that they have nicked other people's ideas e.g. the X Brake and Equipe product line. I can see the irritation (e.g. from X Eng) if your product which you have worked hard to develop is knocked off by someone else. The flip side of the coin however is that a bit of competition keeps the cost of product down for the consumer - i.e. you and me. If you need an example of this look at the vastly - and some might say unjustifiably and even ridicuously - expensive Equipe product line. How this company survives with these prices (£550 for their rear A frame?!) is completely beyond me, hoever If a UK company can indiginously produce the same kit at a more moderate price then ultimately it is OK with me. Cheap knockoff replicas at the highest possible price, I can see how that is good for the consumer... want to buy a Rolex ? Only 50 quid, just as good as the original, honest guv. Don't tell me, the new Scorpion delivery van is a yellow Robin Reliant and they're just a bunch of lovable rogues? I've seen a lot of arguments around Scorpion but, seriously, good for the consumer ? You're having a laugh if you think cheap rubbish copies selling for the same price as the originals is good for the consumer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair P Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Cheap knockoff replicas at the highest possible price, I can see how that is good for the consumer... want to buy a Rolex ? Only 50 quid, just as good as the original, honest guv.Don't tell me, the new Scorpion delivery van is a yellow Robin Reliant and they're just a bunch of lovable rogues? I've seen a lot of arguments around Scorpion but, seriously, good for the consumer ? You're having a laugh if you think cheap rubbish copies selling for the same price as the originals is good for the consumer ! Dave I take your point with your example of the knock off Rolex, but you have taken my original post to the logical extreme which is unrepresentative in the Scorpion vs Equipe context - as well you know. I also think that you are the first person I have met who would describe Scorpion as 'cheap'. Yes, of course a knock off 'rolex' from china will not be the same as the original article. No argument there. The reality is that if you placed a knock off rolex next to the real thing and picked it up you would be able to tell the difference immediately. Stick it in 100m depth of water and you definitely would when the former implodes. I have not feelings one way or the other about Scorpion's kit (although I do agree entirely with everything which has been said elsewhere on this thread about the morality of going bankrupt to clear your debts before re-opening under a very similar name (and screwing your suppliers over in the process)) , but that's a different question. For the purposes of this discussion, unless someone gives me evidence to the contrary, I feel that you would be extremely hard pushed to visually tell any difference between a Scorpion Extreme set up and an Equipe one. Performance-wise there seems to be little difference as well as far as I can see. If anything the Scorpion dislocating shock mounts seem somewhat more elegant. My point is that the Scorpion kit is under half the price of the Equipe one, seems to do the same job to the same standard and is made by a UK company. This is simply not the same as a fake rolex from China. An awfully large number of trucks (not including mine I might add) seem to be running with the Scorpion set up, so evidently the consensus of opinion out there (if not in this forum) is that the stuff works perfectly well and is better value than the hugely overpriced Equipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McS Junior Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 if the LR magazines stop collectively acting like the marketing and propoganda arm of Scorpion Racing in a manner which is borderline on counter-competitive, that company will actually have to work on its customer service a bit harder Call me cynical, but I'm sure this behaviour from the Magazines has absolutely nothing to do with the huge amount of advertising money Scorpion spends with them and all the free trial products they get to fit to their vehicles.... I also think that you are the first person I have met who would describe Scorpion as 'cheap' Dave may be the first person of this type that you've met, but I can assure you that he is not the only one out there! And just for the elimination of any doubt, I'm quite sure he's referring to the quality rather than the price tag! unless someone gives me evidence to the contrary, I feel that you would be extremely hard pushed to visually tell any difference between a Scorpion Extreme set up and an Equipe one. Performance-wise there seems to be little difference as well as far as I can see Good use of the word "extreme" I think you'll find that a fairly brief use of the Search function of this site will unearth a good few examples of Scorpion's product quality. Sure, it may not look any different, but a large number of members on here will testify to its difference in performance. Whilst everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it is difficult to ignore the large number of stories about Scorpion's products and most certainly about their customer service and business ethics. There's no smoke without fire, as the saying goes.... I completely agree with John, I could not comfortably support a company who seem perfectly happy to rip off so many suppliers and carry on trading (albeit in a different guise) as if nothing had happened. Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGUE TROOPER Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Happy Christmas everyone........even if the snow is Orange!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHO? Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 build it yourself and learn, be it welding or megasquirting (where im directing my grey matter) and learn and when possible buy from homegrown genuine enthusiasts/people cleverer than yourself! in a world of morals (or lack of) this is what i stand by, i.e if you want cranked trailing arms go to dollythelw, proven and money back to the roots all coming from a landcruiser driver with a rover heart! take it easy hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 If you can't tell the difference between Scrapiron's knocked off kit and, for example, the Equipe originals then you should've gone to specsavers - all the Equipe kit I've seen has been beautifully made, whereas Scrapiron, well, really isn't. Even if it was decent stuff at a decent price, their ethics stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Is it true that they told the LR comics that they would withdraw their advertising if any pictures of vehicles with X-eng stickers were published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Absolutely none in LRM!Makes a person wonder are they the ones that are owed over £ 30000? Nah i would lay money on it being LRO.. All the editors there had their head so far up Scrapirons back side it was unreal. And as for vince well that was just embarrassing. He is going to be bu**ered as to where he is going to get his free stuff from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I haven't been too impressed with their customer service or the mail order side of things. A friend & I bought some dynabeads from them & took about 10 days to arrive & postage wasn't cheap either. About £7 & 10 days to send a jiffy bag I also phoned them about their extreme arches & they couldn't even tell me what stock they had, told me they would phone & let me know...................................................still waiting! Ended up waiting for some to be made from inovation4x4 which were delivered & fitted & scrapiron still haven't called me back! While I was on the phone to them I asked about the uprated CVs & shafts etc, the lady on the phone didn't have a clue about their products & couldn't tell me anything I wanted to know. I gave them a chance & they didn't deliver so I'll be looking elsewhere from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatback90 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 read on another forum that scrapiron have,apparently, gone to the wall again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnover4x4 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Heard something from one of their suppliers today that they had gone to ground & "vanished off the face of the earth". Such a shame, think of all the job losses in the orange paint industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Think of all the people they owe money too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 So screwing people and suppliers once wasnt enough but they've gone and done it again - i hope they get bloody struck off from being directors and its the last we see of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrovers Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Anyone got any updated information on this topic? We have been trying to contact Scorpion Racing by phone and e-mail for over a week, without success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrovers Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 So screwing people and suppliers once wasnt enough but they've gone and done it again - i hope they get bloody struck off from being directors and its the last we see of them. That might or might not be the case... we had a largish order placed with them and we fully expected to cough up a deposit, but they said no. So despite now being unable to contact them for over a week and finding out at least part of our order was never commissioned from the manufacturer, they at least haven't taken our money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I've heard this too - but it's even better than that! The chap I spoke to said they owe money to a Polish company who have sold the debt on to someone who breaks legs for a living! He also said that the new 'owners' of SR (Ismail Mustafa Ismail and Syrup Ismail)- do not actually exist at all, they are just figments of Kol's imagination. If that is the case, registering a company using false details is fairly illegal too. If that was not enough - one of his creditors is HM Revenue and Customs - who have a habit of catching up with you eventually. Puts me in mind of being stuck between a rock and a sticky out thing! Colin - if you need a place to hide out, I think Les Henson's dungeon is available! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacks906 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 up untill a bit a go i was sticking up for them until they said it would be 3 weeks till they would recive the swivels i wanted have since gone well off them and good job they've gone too dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Why I am no fan of Scorpion Racing in their business ethics or their advertising methods the current story which has surfaced on another forum is based on just what I heard, from ex-disgruntled employees so who knows Personally I have no idea if SR has gone under or not. IF it has gone under then I feel sorry for their employees and any of the suppliers who are owed money. Not exactly the best time for SR employees to lose their jobs and it may well have serious repucussions down the supply chain. IF money is owed to HM Revenue and Customs by a limited company I can not see how the directors of the company can be in the firing line. HMRC will be at the front of the line of creditors to be paid out. Any bank which has given SR loans may or maynot have taken out personal guarantees from the director of the limited company and they would pursue the directors to the limit of any personal gaurantee. Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 IF money is owed to HM Revenue and Customs by a limited company I can not see how the directors of the company can be in the firing line. HMRC will be at the front of the line of creditors to be paid out. I think it depends on how they behaved as directors - in other words, if they broke the law (trading while insolvent etc.), defrauding Companies house etc... - then they may forfeit their limited liability status. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkthe1 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I think it depends on how they behaved as directors - in other words, if they broke the law (trading while insolvent etc.), defrauding Companies house etc... - then they may forfeit their limited liability status.Chris yeah, i was under the impression that in that kind of case (particularly with HMRC) that directors had full accountability and that ignorance wasnt a defence. although im no expert by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Colin - if you need a place to hide out, I think Les Henson's dungeon is available! You know about his dungeon too, Si ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I think it depends on how they behaved as directors - in other words, if they broke the law (trading while insolvent etc.), defrauding Companies house etc... - then they may forfeit their limited liability status.Chris Interesting. I did not realise that. You live and learn. Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I think it depends on how they behaved as directors - in other words, if they broke the law (trading while insolvent etc.), defrauding Companies house etc... - then they may forfeit their limited liability status.Chris Yeah if you still order stuff or take deposits from people while you know you are about to or close to going to the wall then that is fraud and thats Illegal and hence you forfit the normal LTD protection And one person you want to make sure you pay when you go bust is the VAT man and inland revenue. They will get their money from you in the end. Even if not now but in many years when you pop your head up again . They will be there waiting for you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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