Help 300tdi not starting please help

[will4x4]

Hi can you help!

Background:

My 90 is taking about 7 turns before it starts. Everday its getting a bit worse and taking an extra turn. (an extra turn every day it seems)

once it starts it fine all day until over night when its rested about 12 hours it has the trouble again. (seems when engine is warm its fine maybe)

it has always started first time on the frist turn for the last 3 years but started doing this about 7 days ago.

i dont think it is the cold as i have never had a problem with it before (i.e in feb this year when we had the snow it never missed a beat)

any advice on what i should change?

im thinking glow plugs and leads maybe, but dont really have a clue?

thanks in advance

Will

[Retroanaconda]

When it is turning over, does it sound like it's trying to fire?

Try self-priming the fuel lift pump (I am assuming you can do this on 300s?) and then see if it starts straight off the mark.

My 90 will take several seconds of turning over before firing up if left for a few days, I think the fuel leaks back down the lines as if I prime it before hand as above it starts first time.

[Timmy511]

when did you last do a cam belt? belt maybe stretched and the timing out. is there any smoke whilst its running?

is it using any water/mixing? Head gasket maybe on its way out.

is there any smoke whilst its running? this could indicate one of the above.

if it were glow plugs id guess it would be consistent with its poor starting

is the starter motor throwing the engine over nice and fast? if not possibly check the earth staps are clean and well earthed to help it throw it over. the best way is to run one earth lead from the starter motor to the battery.

as said above it could be a fuel problem, but if it were the lift pump that was nackered you usually get a tdi engine that will happily tickover but just wont rev.

To test retroanacondas theory, do you park it on a slope? if so park it back end up hill and try starting it from cold, then the next day park it front end up hill and try start it from cold. If you notice a difference then it could be fuel running back to the tank. My 300 tdi ibex does this and prefers being parked front end down hill.

[pete3000]

How old is your battery? could be the cold snap has revealed the weakness. Once the engine is warm, oil is thinner and the battery has been charged it will be easier to start generally. Then go over your earth leads.

If you are suffering lack of power when running and trouble starting when warm I would start o the fuel system, filter then pipes for air leaks.

From the description you have given it sounds like the cold though.

Pete

[will4x4]

thanks for all the replys.

battery is new so cant be that + cam was changed 10k miles ago so cant be that either.

i tried parknig it the other way around and that made no difference

ill check the water levels tomorrow - so maybe it is the head? although once ran for 5 mins it starts fine all day even leaving it 3-4 hours. it just seem after about 8hours it wont start again first time. - also its not losing power i run a cage 2 x winches etc and it will still do 70-75mph on 33's.

the only other thing i have noticed is its doing about 200miles to £45 of disel at the mo... which seems quite a lot... could that be related to it not starting?

thank you

[hobson]

please don't think i'm being patronizing, but are you leaving the glow plugs to warm up? i notice my dashlight is staying on a bit longer on the cold mornings... (and it sounds a bit more like a bag of spanners for a minute until it warms up!)

i know a few people who are buggers for cranking the engine over without waiting for the light to go out on deisels...

[pete3000]

thanks for all the replys.

battery is new so cant be that + cam was changed 10k miles ago so cant be that either.

i tried parknig it the other way around and that made no difference

ill check the water levels tomorrow - so maybe it is the head? although once ran for 5 mins it starts fine all day even leaving it 3-4 hours. it just seem after about 8hours it wont start again first time. - also its not losing power i run a cage 2 x winches etc and it will still do 70-75mph on 33's.

the only other thing i have noticed is its doing about 200miles to £45 of disel at the mo... which seems quite a lot... could that be related to it not starting?

thank you

The £45 / 200miles / 33" tyres sounds average, If you have checked your earth leads Batt to Chassis, and Chassis to engine. Are you happy with speed starter is turning over at?. I would then start on fuel system letting air back in from tank side of pump.

Pete

[will4x4]

Hi,

NO i dont wait for the light to go off..... i will start doing that later - fingers crossed.

im happy with the electrics so i think as pete3000 says i will start with the fuel system by replacing the fuel filter tonight.

thanks guys i will post outcome later.

cheers

Will

[Holyzeus]

My money's on the glow plugs

[will4x4]

i thought maybe the glow plugs. is it just a case of undoing them and ramming a new one in as if it were a spark plug?

also any ideas on price?

should i change the leads as well like on spark plugs?

thanks - sorry for the ambiguity

Will

[errol209]

i thought maybe the glow plugs. is it just a case of undoing them and ramming a new one in as if it were a spark plug?

also any ideas on price?

should i change the leads as well like on spark plugs?

thanks - sorry for the ambiguity

Will

I'd screw the new ones in gently

About 15GBP each

Only if you think they're knackered.

[white90]

No leads and yes like spark plugs

but you can test them once you remove them with some jump leads

earth onto the body of the plug, positive to where the wire connected to

the tip should glow red in 5-8secs

if not it is Dud and needs to be replaced

any decent motor factors will have them around £30 for a set (only replace faulty ones)

be careful removing them as stripped threads will ruin your day.

[cackshifter]

Well the weather seems to be warming. I must admit, until the last few days my 300tdi started happily and almost instantly whether you wait for the light or not, and would idle lumpily for a moment then be fine. Recently it has been very rumpety for maybe 10 seconds after starting, really needs a blip to settle it, and has to be turned over for more than a moment. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, it's just cold and a diesel. If you give yours a day or 2, and the problems disappear with slighly warmer weather, it points to glow plugs maybe and just getting cold. If on the other hand it still worsens, you do have to be thinking of something else.

Nigel

[hobson]

Hopefully it's something simple like the cold then, mine (like Nigels) will start without the light going out, but it's better for the engine if you wait for it to go out, that means the glowplugs are fully hot, with it being colder the last few days they'll need to warm up a bit longer.

i'd try leaving it until the light goes off first, then test the glowplugs as mentioned.

HTH

[western]

trying to start with glowplugs light still on means the battery is working much harder than it needs to, the glowplugs take a fair bit of amps to fully warm up & the starter needs agood chunk to spin a cold engine over at a decent speed. I always wait for the light to go out, I unlock,get in, key in, ign on,by the time my seatbelt is on, glowplugs light is out & start up is instant, regardless of outside temp.

[BogMonster]

Well the weather seems to be warming. I must admit, until the last few days my 300tdi started happily and almost instantly whether you wait for the light or not, and would idle lumpily for a moment then be fine. Recently it has been very rumpety for maybe 10 seconds after starting, really needs a blip to settle it, and has to be turned over for more than a moment. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, it's just cold and a diesel. If you give yours a day or 2, and the problems disappear with slighly warmer weather, it points to glow plugs maybe and just getting cold. If on the other hand it still worsens, you do have to be thinking of something else.

Nigel

Sounds like you have 1 dud, lumpy idle from start (and often smoke) is a sign of 1 dud plug i.e. only running smoothly on 3 till the 4th one picks up with compression heating and starts to fire properly. Indirect injection is even worse, my Ranger starts on the button with all plugs working but with just 1 dud plug it pops and farts and pours out blue smoke till you rev it to wake up the fourth cylinder.

[will4x4]

waited for light today makes no difference so i will have a go at changing the plugs tonight if i have time - fingers crossed i dont snap one.

any tips? should i squirt them with wd40 a few hours prior? i will take it easy wehn i turn them... cant afford to snap one

thanks for everyones replys

cheers

Will

[white90]

I little pressure to tighten them before undoing them can help avoid stripping a thread.

[BogMonster]

'can't afford to snap one' is an expression used many times before the dreaded ping (which is then a head off job)

Soak some penetrating oil or WD40 around the threads preferably overnight and then veeeery gently, if it starts to tighten up when unscrewing then put it back in a couple of turns and try again, in and out as many times as you need, adding WD40 all the time.

[evolwood]

Only other advice is don't go for the cheapie plugs as they don't last. Get beru or some other well known make.

[defender dave]

hi there i have a 300 tdi and had the very same problem. i found it to be the small fuel return hoses that run from each injector. one of them had a tiny split in and overnight the air must have got in and the fuel had drained back .so i replaced and it was back to normal. i think even a pinhole would still make this happen. hope that will help

[wack61]

'can't afford to snap one' is an expression used many times before the dreaded ping (which is then a head off job)

Soak some penetrating oil or WD40 around the threads preferably overnight and then veeeery gently, if it starts to tighten up when unscrewing then put it back in a couple of turns and try again, in and out as many times as you need, adding WD40 all the time.

Good advice, the mechanic I use had to replace the injectors on a transit van while I was watching, 3 came out fairly easily the 4th was tight, he spent a good 20 minutes of winding in and out with WD40 being liberally applied

[gilloverland]

My money would be on an air leak in the fuel system somewhere - even in the coldest weather I've never known a 300TDI to need the heater plugs.

As mentioned above the leak is alowing fuel to drain back to the tank and the extra spinning the engine is doing is because the fuel pump is priming and bleeding its self every morning - hence why it is worse over night. Check the return pipes on the injectors and make sure the filter (and sedimenter drain tap) are tight. If not these then good luck finding the leak as its probably a tiny pin hole somewhere. Steam clean the landy allow to dry then run for a while whilst searching for a damp spot along the chassis rails where the pipes run...

Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.

[Les Brock]

Hope he would have got it sorted by now........original post is nearly a year old

[Yostumpy]

regarding the glo plug light, read in another thread SOMEWHERE, that although the dash light goes out, the plugs still recieve current and glo for another 5-8 secs, then you hear the relay click off. This is apparantly known as 'post start heating',. intially the light comes on, then after about 6-8 secs it goes out, and this is the time to start it, but the extended glowing after this is supposed to assist initial combustion, thus trying to illiminate the cloud of smoke out the back due to unburnt fuel, its an emmissions/environmental thing. appatantly!. But I did wonder why the difference between the light off, and the relay click.