The Hunt for a Waterproof V8

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I first do have to say a few BIG "thankyous" :

Jon White _ wiring and soldering eggspurt

Mr Fridge - for bleating and making me go this route at all

Bull Bar CowBoy (Ian G) for operating his "Samaritains Help Line" and general helpful knowledge

SWMBO for putting up with paper diagrams and oiley bits everywhere in the kitchen

Bill Shurvington - For some of the parts and general help........................

The problem for me and for many other V8s is that V8s do not like water :

So for a number of months the hunt was on........

1st I toyed with making myy own dizzy with an outer sealed casing - got so far and scrapped that,

then a SAS ex 110 RF cover system, bought but still not good enough,

and after many many routes, INC research into Buick Dizzy (now with R Vogue on this toy ,

and DUI dizzys along with the HEIs, ......

none of which is really water proof - more water resistant ..............I decided on one route

MEGAJOLT EDIS 8 V8

There was a final and impelling reason for me to fianlly choose this route -

namely that the 4.5 Eales V8 has NO VACUMN just a set at 30 degrees at 4000 rpm and job done.

This makes for a very lumpy tickover as the advance is around 16 degrees - far too much, with MEGAJOLT I also have the option of a 10x10 ignition MAP thereby re-using the vacumn, and being able to reset the ignition at whatever it SHOULD be at 10 x RPM buckets along with 10x Vacumn settings :

So, 1st job was to read read read print read and learn :

The MEGAJOLT Site :

http://picasso.org/mjlj/?q=

Here I learnt as best I could (and with help from Fridge and Jon W) decided to go this route, I have gone this route also as the EFI system is tunable for me, and megasquirt is even more complex, my problem was not carbs / EFI mine was Water and a V8 not mixing

You will need.

Trigger wheel 36:1 and gap

EDIS 8 Unit

Megajolt ECU

2x Ford Mondeo or other 4 cylinder coil packs

Make up new (longer leads)

Vacumn pipe

VR sensor and plug (ford)

Beer

mate to do wiring (hello Jon )

Mate to cry down the phone to (Hello Fridge)

Beer

Asprin

time

More Beer

A PC running XP serial port so you can connect to the ECU to play with the Ignition MAP

This system also has the attraction, that if it fails, it has a 10 degrees set advance "Limp Home Mode",

or if I reconnect 1 wire to the coil, place a rotor arm and the old dizzy cap and leads back on I still have the old system as a back up unit.

EDIS 8s are not available from the UK, they come off Lincoln V8 town cars, I have bought a few from E-Bay USA, this is not the same as UK and adding "Worldwide" as an option - so go and look here :

http://www.motors.ebay.com/

Trigger words are EDIS8 EDIS 8 Lincoln Ignition Module etc, pay about £25-£30 for EDIS and the plug with wires (you cannot get this plug new or elsewhere !) EDIS 8 on its own even cheaper (my spare)

The trigger wheel I 1st bought a "should do basic model" much machining later it was no good too big.

Ended up making my own, got it slighly wrong (5mm OD too small) but with a spacer ring to move it back it allowed me to have the sensore almost behind the pulley :

The bracket with the sensor has up/down movement and in out movement,

as the VR sensor has to be set at 10 degrees adavnce and around .5 - 1.5mm from wheel,

................nothing 10 hours on a lathe can't sort, ...........oh for a CNC punch....

The EDIS8, shown here wired up and connected, these are arraently also waterpoof, but I have mounted mine high up to be super safe, if this gets under water, then thats the least of my probs !

below are the pics of the FORD coil packs mounted on the rover cover,

.....................I did spend ages deciding where to fit these :

and here with the leads made and fitted -

I will prob remake new leads later, these were a "Quick Job" to see if all worked - these are done by buying cheap long leads, chopping off the coil end, (or dizzy end) then "Undoing" a FORD end (scrappy for loads and loads of leads - some break - some do come apart) then recrimping the ends back on to the new leads, the coil packs are an exellent fit betweem lead and coil,m best waterprrof connector I have vever seen :

And finally the megajolt ECU shoved temporilary loosely in the cubby box :

Getting it all running was a bit of a pain, had to use the bit of a bodge method which has been outlinned by Mr Fridge and geoff B, but it worked, I am pursuing "A better Bodge" and will advise....

When it was all sorted I had a annoying Hic-cupy type misfire, this was fuelling, now I have such a good spark it burning weak - so a good hard tweak of the "More Fuel" on the adjuster on the ECU now sees it run very smoothly (better than before by miles) yet with a 10x10 "Guesstimeated IGN MAP".

next steps are :

1. Finish the snorkel FFS and quickly !

2. Me, my wallet, Mark Adams, my 90 and a certain 4wd Rolling road ..... for real time tweaking

Yes, its a lot of work, yes you have to do a lot of research, but I for one am chuffed to bits and am looking forward to a V8 that doesn't misfire near in or under water B)

Thanks to all again who have helped, much appreacited !, oh and lastly these pics are in LR4x4.com gallery - I lost ALL my pics due to an error on Photobucket.com

Nige

[BogMonster]

Nice job Nige, good to see the Holy Grail has been attained at last

Have you tried lobbing a bucket of water at it yet as a test?

[landrover598]

I just fitted a diseasal, much easier

Good work though

[pugwash]

I was having a think about diesels v v8 the other day actually.

if you want power buy a V8

if you want reliability/"waterproofness" then buy a diesel.

To both you need to spend some money.

it always make me laugh when you hear dieselly peeps talking about how a diesel can have as much power as a V8- of course it can if you spend the money. Much in the same way that you can get a V8 to be reliable and waterproof by spending money.

To me the only questions worth considering are:

1. Which suirts your driving style better? i like to be able to squirt the power in whenever i like so a V8 suits me. if you were careful and sensible then a diesel would win hands down

2. how important is fuel efficiency- i got 20mpg avg from my last V, but if the vehicle is used for commuting then you might as well get a diesel or an lpg conversion

3. Sound/desireability/comfort- V8 all the way for me

other questions are just a function of money/time.

[LR90]

Hmm, good but where's the water?

[white90]

lets see it again when the water is like this

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

That is still one of my favourite UK Videos, and a nice screen shot

Shame the forum doesn't have a section for "Best ever 4x4 vids"

That would be a good water test tho

Nige

[white90]

just for you:

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~trevor/wales.wmv

Still makes me shudder

Chris Watts drove this with no saftey lines! bluddy scary

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

B)

The end with the classic "Me Feets wet" comment always makes me chuckle

Nige

[western]

First time I've seen that video, love the last comment too shame I missed that weekend out with you guys/girls

[GBMUD]

Test here!

Chris

[David Sparkes]

The end with the classic "Me Feets wet" comment always makes me chuckle

Nige

"My seat's wet!" is the sound I hear, but I agree, it raises a smile, especially the tone of voice it's delivered in.

She sounds as if she isn't certain whether the cause is the stream itself, or a personal accident!!

David

[white90]

defiantley water from the crossing

to give Val her due she is scared stiff of water and cars!

this was a particularly good weekend in Wales..

[geoffbeaumont]

Nice job Nige, good to see the Holy Grail has been attained at last

Have you tried lobbing a bucket of water at it yet as a test?

I've turned a hose on mine. Pictures don't really do it justice, it got a thorough soaking and still ran perfectly. It's been wellied through a shallow ford a few times as well, with no problems, but lack of four wheel drive means it'll be a while before it gets tested properly.

[Hillbilly Raider]

Hmm, good but where's the water?

Trev have you got any pics of you Tonk Stringy and Jules playing in the water that time at Bunny Lane?

[will_warne]

Well Done, Nige. I'll be genuinly intersted to see how this works out.

I was having a think about diesels v v8 the other day actually.

if you want power buy a V8

if you want reliability/"waterproofness" then buy a diesel.

To both you need to spend some money.

it always make me laugh when you hear dieselly peeps talking about how a diesel can have as much power as a V8- of course it can if you spend the money. Much in the same way that you can get a V8 to be reliable and waterproof by spending money.

To me the only questions worth considering are:

1. Which suirts your driving style better? i like to be able to squirt the power in whenever i like so a V8 suits me. if you were careful and sensible then a diesel would win hands down

2. how important is fuel efficiency- i got 20mpg avg from my last V, but if the vehicle is used for commuting then you might as well get a diesel or an lpg conversion

3. Sound/desireability/comfort- V8 all the way for me

other questions are just a function of money/time.

All very true. However; if you wan big power/torque from either then its big money time. Personally I prefer the simplicity of a mechanical diesel but its difficult to get the instant point and squirt. I'll be very intersted to see what Nige eventually gets from his V8 when tuned up correctly on a RR. I'm finally going to pull my finger out and get my 2.8 tuned propperly on a RR near me. Maybe we should look at doing a side by side power run at the same rolling road once both engines are running propperly.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=5595

Erm Thanks

Please excuse me if I work up to that, prob not the brightest "1st Test"

But it has a certain attracction

Nige

[MogLite]

Nice work Mr Barker

I may well do something similar on MogLite if the standard hotwire/dizzy setup gives me problems.

Good tech

[Jon White]

And the really amusing thing????

Mr Barker has NO CLUE as to how/why this system works........

rotfl.......

Jon

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Well Heeeelllllo Jon,

I am not going to Bite Mr W

Much

I won't mention my concern of you doing the wiring, when it took you 2 goes to wire up your own recently fitted 90 heater, and you complained for months how c*ap it was, ahem, till you turned the 2 wires around..... I think you mentioned this was the 50/50 school of wiring technique ?

Nor will I make comment about how your truck seems to have got a "Gay Boy" Pink panel painted on it .....Dear

Nige

PS I HAVE PICS Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Hillbilly Raider]

I HAVE SEEN PICS!!!!!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I HAVE SEEN IT !

AND have pics

Nige

[LR90]

Trev have you got any pics of you Tonk Stringy and Jules playing in the water that time at Bunny Lane?

Tracy captured that on vid is didn't she? Will see if I have a copy.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Getting it all running was a bit of a pain, had to use the bit of a bodge method which has been outlinned by Mr Fridge and geoff B, but it worked, I am pursuing "A better Bodge" and will advise....

Nige

ROTFLMAO

The better bodge is currently being evaluated .............. 2 techs and 2 design engineers and a systems integration engineer have been working on it all day ............ oh, and a project manager who thought that it was much better than work .................... I think these bu**ers have planned the rest of the week around it as well ! …………… mind you the project manager looked happy when I asked him for a Gantt chart and critical path ……

And the really amusing thing????

Mr Barker has NO CLUE as to how/why this system works........

rotfl.......

Jon

Ah, but he will, when we write the 'Janet & John' book of 'HFH automotive electronics'

Ian

[jules]

Tracy captured that on vid is didn't she? Will see if I have a copy.

You mean something like this

Ok I will admit when I got to the others side of this 50m long 1.5m deep mud run she was only running on about six..