Exmoor Beast Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I drove my 110 on the road properly for the first time in ages yesterday, its only been used offroad (albeit quite a lot) for the past year so I've never got it out of third gear. My day to day motor is a Mini and I've got a bit used to having 6 gears and getting back in the 110 I kept trying to change from 4th to 6th which got me thinking....Can the newer Defender 6 speed gearbox be persuaded to sit happily behind a TDi engine? Is it something thats being considered by better people than me? Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I have been wondering the same, but for the TD5 Discovery, so will watch with interest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exmoor Beast Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Transit gear ratios: Transmission Gear ratios 1 st ...5.44 2 nd ...2.84 3 rd ...1.72 4 th ...1.22 5 th ...1.00 6 th ...0.79 Reverse 4.94 Very low 1st? Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 easier to fit a overdrive, then you still have the standard gear plus overdrive on 3rd,4th & 5th high range & you can use it as a splitter box. to fit the latest box, it would probably need a custom flywheel housing to match the gearbox bell housing to the rear of a 200 or 300tdi block, which wouldn't be a cheap process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Transit gear ratios: Transmission Gear ratios 1 st ...5.44 2 nd ...2.84 3 rd ...1.72 4 th ...1.22 5 th ...1.00 6 th ...0.79 Reverse 4.94 Defender: 1st: 3.691:1 2nd: 2.132:1 3rd: 1.397:1 4th: 1.000:1 5th: 0.770:1 Reverse: 3.536:1 You'd want to drop the transfer ratio from 1.41 to take advantage of the 6th on the road, if not you'd end up with a free underdrive ... might suit someone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I agree with Ralph - much easier to fit an OD. I have heard it before that 6th gear on the new boxes doesnt give an awful lot more than 5th on the R380/LT77. The ratios are just closer together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Often 6 speed boxes arent really there to give the car longer legs, but simply to make the intervening gears better spaced. You can see that with the ratios above, the MT82 6th and R380 5th are the same, but the rest of the ratios are closer together on the 6 speed and theres a lower first. With the landrover, the only real advantage is that fitting the 6speed box gives you a lower first gear, which means in turn you can fit a longer transfer box ratio to improve top end and cruising and still be able to pull off with a heavy load in first. Unless you do any sort of towing, i'd probably look at just fitting a 1.2 ratio transfer box. The MT82 box itself has an integrated bellhousing, unlike the R380, so to fit it to anything non-ford would require an adaptor plate, and that might not even be possible depending on how long the input shaft is, and whether it would still be able to reach the flywheel after you've squeezed the adaptor plate in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 IMHO, a large number of the 6-speed boxes out there are not just to give better spaced ratios or in this case crawler firsts, but to make up for the fact that an awful lot of modern diesels have very very very narrow power bands (VWs 150BHP 1.9TDI for example) so to make any real progress you need to be swapping cogs all the time to keep it in the power band. Bit of a band-aid solution if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I dont think they're powerbands are any narrower than a landrover TDi or any other turbo diesel tbh. Some visual examples: VW PD engine, in 130hp and 160hp tune: Landrover 300Tdi: As you can see, the graph shape isnt all that different, infact if anything the VW engine is actually producing its power earlier and ramping up much quicker than the landrover engine, mainly due to it having a VGT. Its more that because its a passenger car, its geared to do 130 or 140mph, whereas a landrover/transit or other commercial vehicle is geared to do 90mph. If you spread the gears out in a 5 speed box by enough to manage 130mph, your gonna have to wind it round to the governor in every gear to ensure your still in the powerband when you select the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 If you spread the gears out in a 5 speed box by enough to manage 130mph, your gonna have to wind it round to the governor in every gear to ensure your still in the powerband when you select the next one. You kind of confirm what I was saying (or trying to say) with this TBH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Some 6-speed boxes have 5th as ~0.7:1 and 6th as ~0.5:1, just not normally found behind 2.5l diseasals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ian Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Hi it is certainly an interesting conversion and as you would expect we have looked at it a couple of times, the front end is relatively simple, new flywheel housing etc, BUT the back end and ensuing length is a major problem, this makes too long to fit a 90. My opinion was 'a hell of a lot of work' for very little gain, all you get is a lower first gear??. No doubt someone will do it just for the hell of it. Regards Ian Ashcroft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Never mind 6 gears, I'm suddenly struck with how similar the power and torque curves are for a 130bhp 1.9 diesel and a 300Tdi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I wonder about the reliability/robustness of the 6 speed. Defender sales are small in Aus, but the 2007 on models seem to experience an awful lot of drive train problems. Diffs and clutches mostly, but also transfer cases and the 6 speed gearbox, all at low km's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 The box is used extensively in ford transits in the UK, and while i've heard of DMF/Clutch issues, i've not heard of anything with the transmission itself. I've also heard the MT82 is fitted to some mustangs? Transfer case is the same LT230 thats always been used afaik? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 what about the disco3 6 speed manual like the TDV6 90 uses? Wonder how the ratios compare... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 D3/4 uses a ZF S6-53 box, which is the same box used in many large engined BMW's, 545i, M3, M5, X5 etc suggesting its probably pretty bulletproof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailerfitter Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Hi it is certainly an interesting conversion and as you would expect we have looked at it a couple of times, the front end is relatively simple, new flywheel housing etc, BUT the back end and ensuing length is a major problem, this makes too long to fit a 90. My opinion was 'a hell of a lot of work' for very little gain, all you get is a lower first gear??. No doubt someone will do it just for the hell of it. Regards Ian Ashcroft Pity there isn't a higher gearing to get the engine revs down when road driving,..£1000 for an overdrive isn't appealing Looking at the LT77 and the R380 configurations and the way the reverse gear on the R380 is on the mainshaft instead of using an idler engagement like the LT77 I am surprised that someone hasn't come up with a 6 speed gearbox out of the 2 LT gearboxes...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Anyone made any progress in finding a modern 6-speed? I'm not putting it in a Defender but more of an off-road sports-car so close ratio and smooth shifting would really be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/shop/adaption-kits/kit-215-lr-300tdi-engine-to-6-speed-mt82-gearbox/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 You can go to taller transfer box ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Hrm; ok so TD6 for 1299 or that kit for almost as much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddychris300tdi Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I've got the v8 fifth gear fitted to my r380 in my tdi 130 which has a higher ratio than than mt82. Also have a 1.2 transfer box fitted so makes a great cruiser and never found it a problem when towing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 ajh - depends what engine you're putting it behind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 For a cool £1000 I think I'd rather just fit an overdrive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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