plasticbadger Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I saw an accident yesterday on the A303, among the many caravans on the road I saw a Discovery Td5 that had parted with it's caravan and ended up rolled about 50m from the road at the bottom of a steap downhill section. Firstly, let me say I hope that the occupants of the Disco were OK and the following thoughts are by no way a slur on this particular driver, it just got me thinking. So caravan accidents do seem common and in the case I saw the caravan was a large single wheel model, which can only be 1800kg max and no bother normally for a Disco. At the time I saw the accident aftermarth I was towing a 25 foot 2000kg boat trailer with a VW Transporter, cuising at 70 mph with no concerns. The rest of my journey on the A303 I marvelled at the tiny euro-boxes towing weaving caravans at 50mph while I cruised past! In my Disco I've towed 3500kg 40 foot long trailers and they're fine as long as you keep the speed down to under 70, but I have (on a specailly closed section of my very long private driveway) towed 4000kg at 80 in the Disco without a bother. However, I've towed a 109 loaded with about 7 axles at the back of my knackered car trailer and found anything above 50 dangerous. So obivously trailer condition and loading distrubution makes a huge differance, as does knowing how to control the trailer when it goes wrong. I've had one of the 40 foot boat trailers get into a big snake when concentration lapsed on a steep desent, but I knew how to get it back under control. So what makes caravans so difficult (I've never towed one)? Is it windage, or load distrubution, or pure lack of experience - i.e. do many 'van owners only tow once a year? Lets see your thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inaine Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 it all about nose weight and how the loads balanced IMO. I towed a car transporter with a 110 chassis back from sussex and got a real tank slapper on at 55 mph in the slow lane of the M25 due to the lorry tracks upsetting the trailer. I am old enough not to need a trailer licence but have had the training as i was shocking at reversing. it quite interesting to see how people don't make any adjustment for having 2 toone on the back, late braking, swerving lanes etc not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I suspect a lot of the problems are down to weight distribution and, in particular, not enough nose weight. I tow my single axle van at or around the legal speed limit with no stabiliser with any of my three vehicles (2 Defenders and a P38) and not had any problems at all with weaving even when overtaking lorries and coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 We always loaded our caravans properly, with the weight distributed over the axle(s) and with the correct nose weight. We had two caravan accidents, each of them caused by another driver: Remember not every accident is caused by those who suffer from it, and also isn't the speed limit for towing trailers 60mph...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 trailer towing speed limit is 60 for dual carriageways/mororways & on other road the speed limit as shown on the road signs. I was following a Discovery Td5 & caravan that suffered a tail wagging dog incident on a downhill section of the A30 near Okehampton as few years, but couldn't control the sway & end up facing oncoming traffic in the inside lane, Disco on it's left side & caravan still connected & on it's left side too, bloody scarey for me & the driver/passengers of the Disco on a very busy A30, occupants a family of 6 only 1 had minor cuts when the right rear side window shattered, no other traffic involved except as witnesses. D2 & van werte total write offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgnas Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Caravans and boat trailers are very different to tow. Boat trailers (at least the ones I have towed) are much more stable. As a proportion of the overall length they have the axle(s) further back and this reduces the tendency to wag. I had a MASSIVE Hobby caravan for a few years. That was fine and dandy up to 50mph, but got caught horribly by the suck of passing HGVs. If you drove faster to avoid the overtakes it became obvious that any mishap would be unrecoverable. It was not a relaxing drive, you had to be constantly alert. After that I had a tiny (14ft) van. You could do anything with that, loading did not seem to matter. After that I had a 20+ft single axle. On that loading was everything. Unloaded it was a cow, nowhere near enough noseweight. It had a lot of weight behind the axle! Now I've got a modern 6 berth 20+ft single axle, nearly a relaxing tow. I have found that you always have to be pulling or braking the caravan. You cannot "roll" round a corner without drive or down hill. So you may have to slow down more for a corner than you want so you can pull the caravan through it. Coasting downhill has a good chance of the caravan wagging the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 interestingly we towed my brothers race car trailer with car on set at the correct nose weight and it was real uncontrolable so reverted it back to way over the correct nose weight. Never had another problem so i say its all about weight distrabution mind a driver knowing how to tow helps. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannytd5 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I've towed quite a few different trailers all towed well Ifor box trailer twin axel always tows well as long at it were level even up to silly weights and feels that safe you feel like you could do the ton Caravan same size as ifor box but single axle but 30 year old worn hitch and nothing in it all over the place anything over 45 felt dangerous Ifor flat bed tri axle depends on loading but can be as good as box trailer or as bad as 30 year old caravan New caravan Twin axle 7.1meter big thing with silly alko squeaky hitch stabiliser thing absult rubbish tows carp all over the place tryed everything loading it nose heavy nose light with it set level with the nose down What I think the problem is caravans are built to be a house on wheels so more money is spent on making it look good not how well it will tow plus they are fitting fixed beds in the rear with lots of space to store stuff then a front locker for nice and heavy gas bottles so the front and back are heavy n the middle is light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 Those replies make sense, even on boat trailers the type of trailer and loading makes a big difference. The big ones I tow are made by Harbeck, they aren't cheap, but they tow so well. However with a 10 m outboard RIB on you need to be carefully, despite only 3000kg and 100kg nose weight. Stick an inboard powered RIB on (3500kg and 350kg nose weight) and nothing can make it snake. I figured windage would make a difference, it effect it starts the snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgnas Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 New caravan Twin axle 7.1meter big thing with silly alko squeaky hitch stabiliser thing absult rubbish tows carp all over the place tryed everything loading it nose heavy nose light with it set level with the nose down For the 'van I had that towed poorly I had to fit a drop plate to put the towball lower to get it steady. The dixon bate was already as low as it goes. Hitch height is important and a lot more variable than you would think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannytd5 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Yes it is I've got a adjustable drop plate to play around with I like park it and look at it to see if the trailer is sitting level befor I set off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerboy_y2k Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Yes it is I've got a adjustable drop plate to play around with I like park it and look at it to see if the trailer is sitting level befor I set off Have you tried it with the front slightly lower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I think what it comes down to mainly is the surface area of a caravan compared with it's weight. I certainly find a trailer loaded with logs more "predictable" when turning or changing lanes when compared with a caravan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Announcing you can cruise without a bother is all very well, but when something goes wrong, the less speed you have on the more likely you are to recover it. Don't forget it might not be your actions that trigger the incident. Bottom line, if you are towing, keep the speed right down and get to your destination relaxed and in one piece. Oh, and keep left when not overtaking. Apologies to all grannies out there who already knew how to suck eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrfarmer Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 when towing my caravan i never go over 50mph (mainly as the other half starts screeming) but did have a hairy moment 2 years ago then i got thrown right on the A38 by the lorry ruts but slowing when a wag starts can be hard to get right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 First off I have to say that all I have ever towed is a tiny trailer behind a mower and a corgi trailer behind my old corgi land rovers . But I have been caravaning with my parents since before I was born and have obviously grown up around them. With a caravan there is a lot of 'bulk' in relation to the weight, so they can be very sensitive to side winds. But I think the biggest factor in the stability of a caravan at any speed is the loading. So many people out there don't appreciate the fact that you cannot load a caravan to tow it as you want to live in it. That does not work. With so many of the current layouts having fixed double beds, it is a relatively vast space to store stuff but again, only when parked up. when traveling ours has the bare minimum couple of light aluminium chairs and the aquaroll. Again on the loading front, newer caravans have so much more equipment in them than they used to. Even just in the 20 years I've been doing it, and that even as an experienced caravaner you have to adjust your packing style to the new 'van. Last change was from a Bailey Senator Indiana (MY07) to the current Bailey Unicorn with a very similar layout, the noseweight different was huge (I can't remember the figures). Other things that affect stability and are the same for all trailers are the number of axles. Stabilisers are a great invention and are good at what they do, but I'm sure many people just don't adjust their driving style from their normal car driving. In doing so they then assume that the stabiliser is going to save them from anything when it should just be there to help in an abnormal situation. As others have mentioned it is also about those around you. With any kind of driving you have to be aware of what is around you but even more so with possible pendulum dangling off the towbar. We had an accident with the caravan in summer 2006. That I believe was driver error. It was the first time Mom had towed for a number of years. It culminated in the disco planted gently face first into the hedge and the caravan sideways across the road, writing off a transit van with the toilet ! Maybe this is the wrong assumption, but most caravan accidents are down to some form of snaking. This can be caused by any number/combination of things: speed/road surface/wind loading/driver input/evasive action from another road users move/buffeted from lorry or coach or other caravan overtaking/driver inexperience. Snaking is something that sometimes can be dealt with, but other times it can't easily be got out of. If its a gentle jobbie and the road has plenty of space to gradually bring the speed down its possible to overcome it. If its caused violently by something such as avoiding another road user, then it may be too powerful to control in the space/time available. Our accident was a gentle one, started off gently and didnt get a lot worse, lack of space was the reason the transit + caravan ate the dust. Well that was a little bit of an essay, it might have been use to someone at this time of night... maybe someone with a little insomnia!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovernut Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 There has been no mention of observing the vehicle manufacturers maximum nose weight. This is to ensure that the design limits for suspension etc are not exceeded. The wrong nose weight will always effect stability. On a lot of euroboxes this can be as low as 30kg (a bike rack and two bikes can exceed that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 “I have found that you always have to be pulling or braking the caravan. You cannot "roll" round a corner without drive or down hill. So you may have to slow down more for a corner than you want so you can pull the caravan through it. Coasting downhill has a good chance of the caravan wagging the car." Are you serious?? Never coast, especially not when towing! Time for someone to re-acquaint themselves with the highway code methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 When I spoke of cruising speeds I meant a speed at which you can maintain without concern, that you can take avoiding action, not get caught out by ruts or side winds. I believe that properly set up towing should be a relaxed drive. If you're having to hang on to the wheel just to keep it in a straight line then you're going too fast or something is set up wrong. At work we call this 'sweaty palms' and treat it as the first sign of a problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 ........not just the highway code but the regs for towing too - 40ft trailers at 70mph?? 10m RIB trailers? Towing is a responsibility , and should be treated as such. Loading of the trailer/caravan is critical and keeping it all within the tow spec for the vehicle will get things off on the right track cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgnas Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 “I have found that you always have to be pulling or braking the caravan. You cannot "roll" round a corner without drive or down hill. So you may have to slow down more for a corner than you want so you can pull the caravan through it. Coasting downhill has a good chance of the caravan wagging the car." Are you serious?? Never coast, especially not when towing! Time for someone to re-acquaint themselves with the highway code methinks. Ahem..... Given as an example of something you should not do. Time for someone to re-aquaint themselves with reading properly methinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Waiter, a serving of humble pie please! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Ive towed caravans for over 20 years and have never had a problem. Load caravan properly within it's limitations and all heavy items placed directly over the axle. A good stabiliser is also worth it's weight. Driving steadily and making sure that ample time is allowed for any manoeuvre. Most accidents are caused by either excessive speed or driver error. Caravans are designed with one purpose. To be towed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Main cause of all accidents: stupididty. I'm including my own trailer misadventure in that too. Very easy to buy a massive caravan, hook it to your Eurobox, stuff it full of kids, bikes, bbqs and dogs, load the car & roofbox up till the arse is on the floor and then head off up the road in blissful ignorance until something goes wrong. There's no warning lights on the dashboard, the owners manual says you can do it and for most there's no requirement to pass a test or do any training. I remember a quote from somewhere along the lines that usually the only time you'll see a caravan being towed with any sort of skill is behind a white transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Main cause of all accidents: stupididty. I remember a quote from somewhere along the lines that usually the only time you'll see a caravan being towed with any sort of skill is behind a white transit. True. With the Transit four ladders on the roof make it better ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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