The dreaded BLUE Box strikes again

[JeffR]

A very quick and serious warning about BRITPART "braided" brake hoses.

DO NOT BUY THEM

I have just spent the best part of a day of my FCKIN life trying to bleed the brakes on a Discovery. In a fit of stupidity I'd picked up a "braided" hose set (all that was available at the time) that came in a blue box. Look good, trouble is I couldn't get a good brake pedal , even using a pressure bleeder.

So I bought a new calliper (there was no bloody fluid coming out of the bleed nipples, still no joy. So cracked all the unions one at a time until I found that I had fluid before the BRITPART flex , but not afterwards.

Takes the piece of sh!t off and tries to push a bit of wire thro it, got about half way before I found the blockage. Being in a particularly fit of bad temper (had to cancel yet another fckin MOT) I assaulted the said hose with an angle grinder.

Underneath the nice shiny SS braid is a piece of white, thick wall plastic piping, worse than that it didn't even have a hole all the way thro it!

I am not kidding, about 1cm of the plastic pipe is simply solid plastic!

For the love of GOD these people are going to kill someone with their atrocious parts. PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT BUY ANY THING THAT COMES IN A BLUE BOX WITH BRITPART WRITTEN ON IT

If this is the result of their QC on safety critical items, makes you wonder...

If anyone from BRITPART reads this - you need to get something sorted, cos the carp parts your company supply are going to cause a fatality sooner or later.

[bishbosh]

I think you might be preaching to the choir Jeff old fruit!

[mickeyw]

Jeff, that is really bad news, but I think many of us learned our lesson long ago.

How many times have you said NEVER?

[Anderzander]

Yesterday's post ..........

[mickeyw]

Is that a box containing all the Blue Boxes Jeff has bought in the past?

[Anderzander]

Happily I can report that box was only full of genuine and Bearmach parts .... Though I can also report that the Britpart box was of excellent quality

[JeffR]

Yesterday's post ..........

OH FCUK!!!!!!!!!

Seriously tho, I honestly didn't think they could screw up a bloody hose . I mean it's simply a tube with fittings on each end, but no they decided that a rod with fittings on the end was a better design. You couldn't make it up. Believe me when I say they are getting it back as a suppository, and I'm putting carborundum paste in the vaseline. Not to mention Trading Standards. They desperately need to sack their QC inspectors (either that or buy them a new white stick and a Labrador), cos they are doing a p!ss poor job.

I'm actually more concerned by the plastic tubing wrapped in SS to be honest.

Add to that the cost of a new calliper mean't that I had to cancel a meal out with the wife (first one in about 5 years) over the weekend means that I'll be sharing the cat basket with the cats for a wee while!!! I suppose using her credit card to buy an engine crane, some timing pins, a clutch and a timing belt kit and a few other odds n sods didn't help either.......

I am seriously considering sending the swines a bill for my wasted time via the small claims system.

[mickeyw]

Jeff I seriously suggest you go back to the retailer for warranty support. My local BP agent will always honour this, at least he would if I'd buy any of it.

I know you've butchered the hose, but remember that a) the heavily publicised warranty BP offer, and b) sale of goods act says a part has to be fit for purpose. All pee taking aside, even if the stainless went rusty, or the rubber hose crumbled, a hose should still be capable of passing air or liquid. Your chopping the part has provided visual evidence of the fault.

You should be able to get a refund

[reb78]

Add to that the cost of a new calliper mean't that I had to cancel a meal out with the wife (first one in about 5 years)

I am seriously considering sending the swines a bill for my wasted time via the small claims system.

In addition to the safety problems, this ^^^^ is what really gets me with the buggers though. Its not just a wasted few pounds on the 'pipe'. In your case, its a day of your time and a new caliper. Who compensates you for that??! I'm pretty sure they wont!

[Simon Smith]

How long before they kill someone? Or has it already happened but not been linked to a faulty part? For selling something that dangerous they really should be put out of business.

[steve_a]

To be fair, what did you expect inside the braided hose? The braid is to stop the expansion, the plastic is to keep the fluid in

QC is a funny thing, you don't check each part, at least not for this kind of application. You test 1 in 10 or 20 or 100. So this is an example of a bad part, not neccesarily a bad process.

Do take it back though, if they do have reasonable QC then they may check the batches around that to see if there was a problem affecting more than a single pipe.

I had all makes or something braided hoses and had a similar problem, though in that case it turned out to have a bunch of silicon sealant closing off one end! Much the same as you I cursed and swore, then rammed a doofer down it and out the plug of sealant popped. I was surprised...

[Bowie69]

I doubt they make the tube tbh, or even the whole hose :/

[JeffR]

Credit where it is due, Neil Waldron, from Britpart , contacted me today and was extremely concerned that such a safety critical item was faulty. I was able to give him the batch no and he has quarantined the remains if that batch. Even offered to send me a set of Goodridge hoses, shame I'd ordered and paid for a set which were dispatched an hour before he rang...

Watch this space as I suspect it's gonna get interesting.

[GBMUD]

I'm actually more concerned by the plastic tubing wrapped in SS to be honest.

I guess you have never seen the inside of a Goodridge hose then? The construction looks exactly the same - though I have not yet seen a 'blind' Goodridge hose... Glad to see BM taking a responsible interest.

Chris

[JeffR]

I guess you have never seen the inside of a Goodridge hose then? The construction looks exactly the same - though I have not yet seen a 'blind' Goodridge hose... Glad to see BM taking a responsible interest.

Chris

All the goodridge hoses I've killed in the past (rally minis used to eat the buggers if you didn't cable tie them to the bottom arm) were neoprene pipe, not plastic, guess times have changed.

[GBMUD]

When I used to make up Goodridge brake hoses back in the '90s they all had white nylon (looking!) inner sleeves with the braided outer. We used fittings with olives which fitted over the nylon inner and inside the braid then the fitting over the outside for a neat finnish. Some other types of Goodridge hose, oil, vaccum, fuel etc. had black inners.

Chris

[discomikey]

all im saying is (no offence) but thank god it was you that hose went out to, and not some amateur first time home mechanic (again no offence to them either) that wouldnt have noticed, and just driven on it, having felt the pedal go hard and assume it didnt need bleeding

lets hope there are no more like that, if i were you i would send them a letter and or phone call and maybe theyll have the common sense to recall all brake hoses on a QC check basis.
although weve all seen their QC check passed items

its a shame really because id like to take pride in a british company, if they did sell better parts. when you say you get what you pay for, its true to a certain extent but if the product is incapable of doing what it was intended to do from the start, especially stopping the vehicle straight, or even at all, then its not strictly true.

on the plus side you did get more product than you paid for.

[reb78]

its a shame really because id like to take pride in a british company, if they did sell better parts. when you say you get what you pay for, its true to a certain extent but if the product is incapable of doing what it was intended to do from the start, especially stopping the vehicle straight, or even at all, then its not strictly true.

Trouble is, they are a British company that don't sell British parts. Its all carp made cheaply in China and India. If they sold parts made by a British workforce, I might be more inclined to support them and we could hope that the quality would be better.

[Eightpot]

I gave britpart the benefit of the doubt this week, and bought a set of rear drums/shoes - the last set of Britpart drums I bought were oval and had to be thrown out, but that was a few years back, so lets move on...

Fitted it all up, put the wheels back on, and couldn't get the car to shift. Jacked the wheels up and the drums were locked solid. Checked the adjusters were backed off fully, hammered the drums off.

Number one fault - the adjuster pins on the shoes just fell off when touched by the adjuster cam. I had to weld them back on.

number two fault, the shoes didn't actually fit inside the drum - I had to trim the leading edge of the shoe and sand down the first quarter of the lining material before the drum could rotate freely.

I can put up with a short lifespan, but what really riles me is does nobody ever check this stuff actually fits or works before distributing it for sale??

[JeffR]

I gave britpart the benefit of the doubt this week, and bought a set of rear drums/shoes - the last set of Britpart drums I bought were oval and had to be thrown out, but that was a few years back, so lets move on...

Fitted it all up, put the wheels back on, and couldn't get the car to shift. Jacked the wheels up and the drums were locked solid. Checked the adjusters were backed off fully, hammered the drums off.

Number one fault - the adjuster pins on the shoes just fell off when touched by the adjuster cam. I had to weld them back on.

number two fault, the shoes didn't actually fit inside the drum - I had to trim the leading edge of the shoe and sand down the first quarter of the lining material before the drum could rotate freely.

I can put up with a short lifespan, but what really riles me is does nobody ever check this stuff actually fits or works before distributing it for sale??

My suspicion is that Britpart (they are after all only re-sellers) take their manufactures QC reports as being kosher, I personally think that a large number of their manufacturers/sources are simply taking the p!ss and their QC reports are works of fiction, at best.

Britpart are not the only ones tho, last year I bought a shed load of 8.8 grade M6,M8 and M10 setscrews and bolts. Used some of the M10's to put the Discos fuel tank back in and managed to shear the heads off two of them using a 1/4 drive ratchet. There is no bloody way they were 8.8s, there seem to be shed loads of engineering supplies that originate from the Far East which are simply not what they appear to be.

I suppose it's down to cost and the virtual absence of accountable/traceable British made stuff, bearing in mind this countries fortunes were based, to a greater extent, on engineering prowess, sad bloody world we live in.

[task]

I refuse to fit Britpart these days after so many items being incorrect, that's a rather impressive level of fail on their part though, solid brake hose!

A few years ago a good friend had a cracked inlet manifold on his series 3 2.25. He bought a replacement item in a bluebox and spent the afternoon fitting it with a friend. When he tried to start the engine it just refused to go. Odd he thought so he did the usual checks for fuel etc, he thought his timing pump had been on the way out so he replaced that (not a great one for logic at times, my mate) but still it didn't fire. Eventually he stripped the engine apart again and discovered that the inlet manifold was solid, much like your pipe. Which would go a long way to explaining why it didn't work.

[simonr]

Trouble is, they are a British company that don't sell British parts. Its all carp made cheaply in China and India. If they sold parts made by a British workforce, I might be more inclined to support them and we could hope that the quality would be better.

The trouble is, QC from British companies is no better! I spend a huge amount of time checking and rejecting parts made by reputable companies in the UK. Recent examples have been metal parts folded inside out, parts cut to previous revisions of drawings which should have been deleted, incorrect machining tolerance so parts do not fit together - and worst of all, none (few) of the UK companies give a **** about the timescales or promised delivery date. It's bad enough when a part is wrong, but wrong and 12 weeks late makes me swear!

I'm not saying Chinese companies are better - but they do generally make what you tell them and deliver on time. The biggest issue is 'quality fade' where the first batch will be great, then they figure they can increase their profit by cutting corners so subsequent batches are worse & worse. This seems to be a cultural thing - I guess when they were making bits for the PRC state, they were only scrutinised for the first batch - then left to get on with it. Unfortunately it has stuck.

It makes me feel gloomy about the future for UK industry - too many of the companies I deal with have a 'can't be arsed' mentality which not only damages their company, but mine too and the rest of the economy!

Si

[reb78]

The trouble is, QC from British companies is no better! I spend a huge amount of time checking and rejecting parts made by reputable companies in the UK. Recent examples have been metal parts folded inside out, parts cut to previous revisions of drawings which should have been deleted, incorrect machining tolerance so parts do not fit together - and worst of all, none (few) of the UK companies give a **** about the timescales or promised delivery date. It's bad enough when a part is wrong, but wrong and 12 weeks late makes me swear!

I'm not saying Chinese companies are better - but they do generally make what you tell them and deliver on time. The biggest issue is 'quality fade' where the first batch will be great, then they figure they can increase their profit by cutting corners so subsequent batches are worse & worse. This seems to be a cultural thing - I guess when they were making bits for the PRC state, they were only scrutinised for the first batch - then left to get on with it. Unfortunately it has stuck.

It makes me feel gloomy about the future for UK industry - too many of the companies I deal with have a 'can't be arsed' mentality which not only damages their company, but mine too and the rest of the economy!

Si

Thats made me feel gloomy now too . Too much pride has dissappeared from our manufacturing industries these days. I guess its been on the slide for decades.

[simonr]

People assume that outsourcing abroad is purely on cost grounds. However, these days the cost difference is marginal, even in China. The biggest drivers are actually quality control and timescales. Manufacturers deny this - but they are just sticking their head in the sand! It's an excuse for not doing anything about it.

UK companies would rather manufacture in the UK - but it's better to have the right part delivered on time (so you can sell them) than half a ton of scrap metal and another 12 week wait! This was the reason for my question on here a few months ago, looking for CNC companies - but after they think they have secured your business, they go just as bad as their predecessor. More effort seems to go into attracting new business than keeping the existing - which is just crazy.

On Topic - a poor quality part does not necessarily mean that it's made abroad. I was berated by a customer for having (he assumed) a part, badly made in 'China' - where in fact the part was badly (and expensively) made in Crawley, West Sussex.

Si

[JeffR]

I moved back north about 4 years ago after 20 odd years away. I was genuinely shocked at the lack of small engineering works. Places like Team Valley Trading Estate used to have a couple of dozen one and two man engineering shops who could and did make anything, and the stuff was good quality too.

I never had a problem finding someone to plane an alloy cylinder head or grind a cast iron one, now if I want something like that done I have to send it away by bloody courier.

The demise of British engineering skills is shocking, back in the early 80's when I was training as a mining engineer, there was a waiting list for most engineering courses, now there simply aren't many engineering courses.

It's a product of the shift in industry from manufacturing (I do not mean the likes of Nissan/BMW Mini who assemble) to service industries. Science has gone the same way.

When I worked underground we broke into some Victorian mine workings and found that the hand winches they had abandoned in the late 1880's still worked perfectly after the best part of 100 years in a cold wet atmosphere. They didn't build stuff to a price and with built in obsolescence, they built stuff to do a job and last.

The bloody education system don't help, when I was at school we were taught basic skills in metal work, how to set up a lathe, how to tap threads, how to use a milling machine, kids don't that anymore. The nearest thing my eldest son (he's 11) does like that is to make a perspex wind chime. Yet a few years back a mate let him loose on his lathe and Daniel produced a very basic scribe with a turned brass cover and was overjoyed that he'd made something useful.

But if I ask him now if he wants to be an engineer I get the reply, no, I'd rather go into IT as salaries are much much better.

Rant over