Stellaghost Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Too long to fit in the lathe an turn the tube to fit the flange? No further away stick with the shafts and read back regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Splines not long enough to move the diff to lightweight position. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, miketomcat said: Splines not long enough to move the diff to lightweight position. Mike That's good enough for me, splines are long enough it's the half shaft that needs to be 100mm longer, measured up my lathe and cannot get enough length to make one so keeping original and I will.modify sump ala Binky if prop centre line becomes a major issue, just pleased I spotted my blunder before I got carried away with slitting discs regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Made joining piece today for inner axle tube joining Fitted and root welded Also set angle for diff Fully welded ends and insert Needs to cool down and then see if all still square regards Stephen 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Wow I go away for a few days and all this progress happens! The pictures were very informative, certainly explains how Mog axles manage to weigh as much as they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 Released axle from jig and all good so blended weld, suppose you could argue it wouldn't be seen once outer casing fitted but someone might see it in the future and call me a hashy bar....d Also chamfered axle case ready for piecing in This is going to be a pig to do short side not too bad Not that simple I'm afraid, too wide at flanged end tried compressing it in vice but still not happy with fit This needs to be round so I have a wee bit of swaging to do with a BFH So all the above will be straightforward enough its the long side that will be a pain and I'm not quite sure how I will achieve the result I'm after one thing in my favour is I already have the shapes I want but in two short lengths I'm going to need to figure out how I'm going to make a section of 6mm plate into the casing halves I need in just top and bottom lengths. I'm beginning to understand why flipping the axle is the tried and tested route lol regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Just a thought, as you are narrowing the axles, do they need to be quite so reinforced? You could lose a LOT of weight if you (for example) removed/reduced the outer tube bracing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Bowie69 said: Just a thought, as you are narrowing the axles At the moment I have not narrowed the axles due to inset I put on the rims when I made them, that's not to say it would never happen in the future regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Ah, I suppose question still relevant, as they are going on a vehicle with MGW half that of a 404, do you think there is scope for the same lightening process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 My god they didn’t skimp with materials did they 😯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Ah, I suppose question still relevant, as they are going on a vehicle with MGW half that of a 404, do you think there is scope for the same lightening process? I did raise something like this a fair few posts ago but was informed that the weight above is not the concern but the unsprung weight of axles and wheels is. So the honest answer is I dont know if I can reduce axle steelwork without compromising axle strength but all suggestions welcomed regards Stephen Edited June 30, 2021 by Stellaghost Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I'm no expert, but looking at that, you could easily lose the outer casing, smoothly joint the outer diff casing to the tube with a couple of fillets, and then think about the axle flange end -given the LR axles are just friction welded (and is reliable) on anything you do will be a marked improvement. Weight is weight whether unsprung as here, or sprung, both kill performance on and off road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: I'm no expert, You may not be, but you certainly have more knowledge than me for example until it was mentioned I'd not come across unsprung and sprung weight and I agree weight is weight Food for thought. I have to say, however I do have a slight concern with future proofing as these axles will last longer than me, wouldn't like to think I could cause someone harm in the future, god knows what the axles could end up under in years to come regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 I suppose another question is, who has done or seen done a mog 404 axle conversion. Did the axles get lightened and if they did were they still ok after off-road abuse regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I think it'd be worth leaving the outer casing off. You're not going to load a few tonnes on them, and nobody is going to chuck them under a Mog again, so I don't see the harm. Look into some more lightweight bracing if you really feel you need it - I think some well placed angle iron is going to do 80% of the job of that massive amount of steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 There is easily 4 times the weight on the end of the axle due to portal box, massive discs and larger wheel and tyre, if I leave the outer casing off am I not then left with the equivalent of what a landrover axle is. ahh have a scrap axle outside going to nip out and cut it to see tube thickness regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 Cut end and land-rover axle is same thickness as mog inner axle so at the moment I'm gonna put outer casing back on after all lightweight axles get bracing on for military use and there is a lot more weight hanging on the end. At the end of the day I can always put another v8 in @FridgeFreezer are your volvo axles double skinned and if not how thick is axle casing regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I think I’d rather end up with heavy and invincible. I also like that you’ll end up with a lightweight that isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Anderzander said: I think I’d rather end up with heavy and invincible. I also like that you’ll end up with a lightweight that isn’t. A lightweight in full trim is actually heavier than a standard series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 10 hours ago, Stellaghost said: Cut end and land-rover axle is same thickness as mog inner axle so at the moment I'm gonna put outer casing back on after all lightweight axles get bracing on for military use and there is a lot more weight hanging on the end. At the end of the day I can always put another v8 in @FridgeFreezer are your volvo axles double skinned and if not how thick is axle casing regards Stephen I'm surprised how thick that section of LR axle was, I thought the tubes and diff pan were a lot thinner than that. I've not sectioned a Volvo axle but they're single-skinned and maybe 6-8mm thick, the Volvo ends are way lighter and I suspect the overall rating of the Volvo is lower (@~7.5t for the 6x6, maybe a tad more) than whatever the worst-case is for a fully-laden Unimog. I know when I lifted a passing Unimog end and brake drum I was suitably impressed, by comparison Volvo ends are fairly easily handled (even a built-up steering end with hub) and the drums are the same dimensions as Stage 1 V8, plus Volvos were running 16" rims with ~9.00x16 tyres, so smaller and lighter than Mogs again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stellaghost Posted July 1, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2021 I've been giving this some thought and I'm going to stick with double skinned, part of this thought process is coming from the post Daan put up about the diff shortening, they were looking at weight saving as appose to packaging issues which is what I've got. Also on thier FB page there was no evidence that they had looked at lightening the axle casing, which could have been a massive saving, I would imagine they must have looked at it. At the end of the day this is a toy, I don't need on road performance and I cannot see me doing Ladoga, total finished weight shouldn't be more than a 110 with winches and a salsbury back axle and a lot of them seem to manage very well off road. At the moment it's all about the build which I have to say I'm enjoying immensely as it's something I've fancied doing for a good while but as we all know life in general has it's own priorities and have to do's regards Stephen 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stellaghost Posted July 3, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) So on with the double skinning I will warn you now its a bit of a long winded post apologies Some 31/2" 1/4" Wall pipe and a bit of rough box made out of channel Getting hashy with the plasma cutter, no neat measurements Hammered to rough shape and welded up Blended Anybody sussed out where I'm going with this ? Lots of heat Box wedge thingy put in and smacked with a 14lb hammer Then realised its a slow process and probably not going to happen So on with plan B Cue big press, lots of heat several times End result Split in half and voilà two axle skins of sorts Straightened out a wee bit via hammer and anvil and stretched ends cut off Some more trimming etc and then tacked into position to check fit A bit more swaging and I'm just about there regards Stephen Edited July 3, 2021 by Stellaghost 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Very nice solution to flaring the ends , I don't think you will have any worries about bending the axle... Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Lovely work as always Stephen! Is that new outer as thick as the old one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 2 hours ago, steve b said: Very nice solution to flaring the ends , I don't think you will have any worries about bending the axle... Steve …ever 🤩 Awesome ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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