ThreePointFive Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 I agree. It's convinced me to do a lot less whinging about far smaller issues, but consequently I now don't post. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 Test drive number 2 and no untoward noises... 🤞 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Oh that's good news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Thats very good. I hope it continues to be silent! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Yes, very pleased, I was having way too much empathy and it was making me miserable! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Maverik said: Test drive number 2 and no untoward noises... 🤞 Good news. Fingers crossed and all that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 Had another thought, and this pictures confirms said thought... I had a couple of other oil seals sat in reserve and these are them. Brown looking one is a Gaco, the black one a Victor Reinz, the one I have in my truck is a Corteco type, which has a lip just like the Victor Reinz one. As you can see the Reinz seal the outer lip sticks out a good bit over the hard outer "base" of the seal just like the Corteco one I have installed. So there's obviously a couple of types of seal been offered for this job and the correct installation tool I used doesn't quite push the larger lipped seal far enough in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Well that's certainly looking like the reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Bowie69 said: Well that's certainly looking like the reason... Still can't quite get my head around how it was making such a loud noise. Quite the (laborious) learning experience. Every day's a school day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Agreed , and thank you for sharing , what a long road to the solution Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 But would rubber squeal? I mean it might for a second but surely then it would rip and stop? I have the same thoughts? Is there more in that lip than just rubber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, reb78 said: But would rubber squeal? I mean it might for a second but surely then it would rip and stop? I have the same thoughts? Is there more in that lip than just rubber? No just Viton I think. I reckon it was just on the hairy edge of not right as the noise only appeared when everything was nice and warmed through after a decent run, tough seal...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 One thing I have found on TDIs is that the outer crank seal is giving problems; the one sealing on the pouly is always running dry; after about 3 days of heavy off roading, this usually no longer seals, and the timing chest ends up full of water; not quite the problem you have here, but the problem of it always running dry is important here I think, it could create the noise you described. The internal crank seal is usually ok, as one side lives in oil and will get some lubrication. So different materials/brands of seals may give different results here. I have not been able to solve this problem myself, other than regularly replacing the seal. Daan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Do you grease the seal before installation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Nonimouse said: Do you grease the seal before installation? Well I did definitely this last time, on initial installation I just remember wiping the pulley with some clean engine oil before installing. - I generally dont like to put to much grease on the inside of the timing case components at it inevitably gets spread around the timing chest. You know most oil seals come with a ring of lubricant pre-applied - I wonder if this might have been missing initially also. - but ultimately I think the seal wasn't seated far enough in due to the lip that was protruding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 I think the normal guidance I have seen is to half fill the outer lip (so full half way round!) with grease on these double-lip seals. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 How does the outside seal actually work? The one I have (300tdi) has a loose ring on the inside diameter that seems to spin with the pulley. I am presuming it's a labyrinth, there is no chance of any lubrication for it. It never would stop oil coming out, the oil would drop out the wading hole first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 The pulley seal is to stop water entering the casing, not to prevent oil escaping. Â As such, it really ought to be fitted with the lip towards the pulley and the solid face towards the timing belt, but the manuals specify otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Never had a problem with this seal on my 200tdi, everytime I've replaced the timing belt the seal gets replaced, when I stripped the engine for the big rebuild nearly 4 years ago the old removed seal looked good with no damage to the lips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, cackshifter said: How does the outside seal actually work? The one I have (300tdi) has a loose ring on the inside diameter that seems to spin with the pulley. I am presuming it's a labyrinth, there is no chance of any lubrication for it. It never would stop oil coming out, the oil would drop out the wading hole first. 300tdi is basically the same as a 200tdi, there's just a lip seal that's designed to keep dust/water from getting into the timing chest. Just not the same size - 300tdi crank shaft is bigger in diameter hence pulley and seals are bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 That is not actually what I have. Mine is the later 300 seal, which is a bespoke ring with teflon rotating seals. Like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ERR7143-Land-Rover-Defender-Crank-Shaft-Outer-Timing-Cover-Oil-Seal-300-TDi-/111210266652 I presume land rover have tried to solve this problem. I have gone through several of these, they end up ruined, coming out in 3 pieces with a load of swarf. I cannot imagine an ordinary oil seal being much better in this application. I cannot revert to the earlier version anyway, unless I change the cover. I have looked at fitting a sealed bearing here, as this would give you a lubricated seal, but the dimensioning of this makes it hard to find something suitable. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Daan said: That is not actually what I have. Mine is the later 300 seal, which is a bespoke ring with teflon rotating seals. Like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ERR7143-Land-Rover-Defender-Crank-Shaft-Outer-Timing-Cover-Oil-Seal-300-TDi-/111210266652 I presume land rover have tried to solve this problem. I have gone through several of these, they end up ruined, coming out in 3 pieces with a load of swarf. I cannot imagine an ordinary oil seal being much better in this application. I cannot revert to the earlier version anyway, unless I change the cover. I have looked at fitting a sealed bearing here, as this would give you a lubricated seal, but the dimensioning of this makes it hard to find something suitable. Daan School day for me, I've not seen one like that before, thanks Daan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.