Peaklander Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Forgive the request but I can't find the thread. Recently there was discussion over the fuel pump 'boost ring' and what a difference it makes to responsiveness even without fuelling adjustments. I think @maverick and @Nonimouse had experience and commented. There is discussion on this forum and elsewhere but I seem to think that the one I can't find was simple, to-the-point and quite revealing in results. Can anyone link to it please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Just to be cheeky, I make and supply these for a lot less than anyone else... Brilliant little mod and on my 200tdi it reduced the EGTs by getting on for 100 degrees C. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I too am curious as to what they do and what are the benefits. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 49 minutes ago, miketomcat said: I too am curious as to what they do and what are the benefits. Mike I believe they slightly adjust the pump timing to inject the fuel slightly earlier to get a longer/better burn. i.e. more fuel is turned into power and less wasted out of the exhaust. Years back places like Jeremy J Fern used to tamper with the engine timing, I think this was trying to achieve something similar but before these boost rings existed as a concept. I can't say for certain, but I have a stock turbo modded 200Tdi that runs pretty well in an 88 coiler. A mate has a dyno verified 190hp Td5 90 and in a straight line he is quicker, but not quick enough to over take if he is behind me. I'm no way saying the Tdi is this power level, it most certainly isn't. But it does run rather well. Did a bit of a fun drag race last summer in a field (0 to about 70'ish mph) against an EFI 3.9 86 coiler and an 88 3.9 comper. I beat both of them. My 200Tdi has a tweaked pump, slightly tweaked boost, free flow exhaust dual inlet manifold and a boost ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, miketomcat said: I too am curious as to what they do and what are the benefits. Mike The injection pump has a cam plate in it that rotates as the rpm increases. This advances the injection timing. The spacer allows the piston that controls the cam plate further rotation, giving more timing advance further up the rev range. The engine becomes more responsive on the motorways and it reduces EGTs so you can lob more fuel in. Doesn't matter what state of tune the engines in, it will benefit from it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 13 hours ago, vulcan bomber said: Just to be cheeky, I make and supply these for a lot less than anyone else... Brilliant little mod and on my 200tdi it reduced the EGTs by getting on for 100 degrees C. Hello! How does one go about getting one?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I think the are some VWs using the same pump with the ring installed at manufacture, probably because their engines rev higher. It isn’t a boost ring, it’s a timing advance ring - it has no effect on turbo boost or the fuel delivery in response to boost. The good news is that it should have no negative effects on the engine - no increased stress or temperatures, just better running. I’ll be fitting them on both my cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I will chuck one on then until I do the m57! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 19 hours ago, vulcan bomber said: Just to be cheeky, I make and supply these for a lot less than anyone else... Brilliant little mod and on my 200tdi it reduced the EGTs by getting on for 100 degrees C. Please can you DM me so I can buy one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 9 hours ago, andy.cowman said: Hello! How does one go about getting one?! If people want them from me, then send me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 8 hours ago, Snagger said: I think the are some VWs using the same pump with the ring installed at manufacture, probably because their engines rev higher. It isn’t a boost ring, it’s a timing advance ring - it has no effect on turbo boost or the fuel delivery in response to boost. The good news is that it should have no negative effects on the engine - no increased stress or temperatures, just better running. I’ll be fitting them on both my cars. There getting the name boost ring because there sold with them silly boost pins that I personally would avoid like the plague. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, vulcan bomber said: There getting the name boost ring because there sold with them silly boost pins that I personally would avoid like the plague. And one particular emporium of over priced tat that calls them that as they don't understand what they do 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 Maybe it's my fault. I mentioned the term boost ring, knowing that it's a spacer for timing. Perhaps the brackets could be moved.. 200 / 300 TDi Dynamic timing advance spacer (boost ring). Thanks for the link @Bowie69 - that's the thread I was thinking about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, Peaklander said: Maybe it's my fault. I mentioned the term boost ring, knowing that it's a spacer for timing. Perhaps the brackets could be moved.. 200 / 300 TDi Dynamic timing advance spacer (boost ring). Thanks for the link @Bowie69 - that's the thread I was thinking about. Dynamic ring…. sounds like a post-vindaloo issue.🤔 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The Johnny Cash song 😆 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I bought mine form Nick at Steg's supplies. Not being rude to Vulcan Bomber, but I know Nick's work and there are a lot of sub par pins and rings out there and I wanted to be sure. The change in the pump cam timing is dark magic. It makes a big difference to some things and a small difference to a lot of things. I don't run an aftermarket boost pin as I don't see the need. Neither do I see the need (or science) to run a twin inlet. I run 300 tdi nozzles on 200 injectors, but the flow is the same. Standard 200 nozzles would fuel 170+bhp easily, but are difficult to get.... I've polished the exhaust outlets and manifolds. Turbo is set to 1bar, and there is a cheap replacement intercooler fitted, that's a little bigger and flows better. Pre ring I was getting 35-38 to the gallon (measured). Post ring, I'm getting a regular 36 mpg on the dot. Towing is easier. There is more 'off boost fuelling'. I've noticed more exhaust 'smoke' but it's burnt diesel, not unburnt (which I never had a problem with). The engine is quieter - noticeably so. Gearchanges are smoother ( I tend to double declutch down the box, and even that is easier) I'm in the process of replacing the Disco, for a non Land Rover. I'll be sad to see her go, but she will be given, rather than sold, to someone who knows here well and will love her as much as I do. My replacement vehicle (if all goes well) will be powered by an OM605, thus opening up a whole new world of diesel fun 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: I'm in the process of replacing the Disco, for a non Land Rover. I'll be sad to see her go, but she will be given, rather than sold, to someone who knows here well and will love her as much as I do. My replacement vehicle (if all goes well) will be powered by an OM605, thus opening up a whole new world of diesel fun Sad to hear the disco is going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I've still got to finalise the purchase of the new motor. It's a 1989 LWB 461 G wagen, which is the 4x4 I've always wanted. It's solid and the only change is the engine. The 605 is a brilliant engine, almost as good as the 617. This one runs a standard mechanical pump and no intercooler, both things that will need to be addressed, although the latter is going to be fun, as there is air con fitted. Worst case scenario, I have a 617 that needs a home. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Nonimouse said: I've still got to finalise the purchase of the new motor. It's a 1989 LWB 461 G wagen, which is the 4x4 I've always wanted. It's solid and the only change is the engine. The 605 is a brilliant engine, almost as good as the 617. This one runs a standard mechanical pump and no intercooler, both things that will need to be addressed, although the latter is going to be fun, as there is air con fitted. Worst case scenario, I have a 617 that needs a home. Needs a thread once it arrives with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Needs a thread once it arrives with you! As and when it all happens, I'll start a thread, I promise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 hours ago, Nonimouse said: The engine is quieter - noticeably so. Gearchanges are smoother This is what attracts me to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 9 hours ago, Nonimouse said: I bought mine form Nick at Steg's supplies. Not being rude to Vulcan Bomber, but I know Nick's work and there are a lot of sub par pins and rings out there and I wanted to be sure. The change in the pump cam timing is dark magic. It makes a big difference to some things and a small difference to a lot of things. I don't run an aftermarket boost pin as I don't see the need. Neither do I see the need (or science) to run a twin inlet. I run 300 tdi nozzles on 200 injectors, but the flow is the same. Standard 200 nozzles would fuel 170+bhp easily, but are difficult to get.... I've polished the exhaust outlets and manifolds. Turbo is set to 1bar, and there is a cheap replacement intercooler fitted, that's a little bigger and flows better. Pre ring I was getting 35-38 to the gallon (measured). Post ring, I'm getting a regular 36 mpg on the dot. Towing is easier. There is more 'off boost fuelling'. I've noticed more exhaust 'smoke' but it's burnt diesel, not unburnt (which I never had a problem with). The engine is quieter - noticeably so. Gearchanges are smoother ( I tend to double declutch down the box, and even that is easier) I'm in the process of replacing the Disco, for a non Land Rover. I'll be sad to see her go, but she will be given, rather than sold, to someone who knows here well and will love her as much as I do. My replacement vehicle (if all goes well) will be powered by an OM605, thus opening up a whole new world of diesel fun VB's work is very good too. I can vouch for that. He rebuilt Ralphs overdrive if folk want other opinions to mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 The people that supplied my reconditioned FIP have so far honoured the warranty and recently checked the pump as I have done a topside check of my engine. I asked them about fitting this spacer and they have said "no", we don't advise, saying "The spacer puts the pump in permanent advance when it’s not supposed to be...". I'm not sure that is correct because I believe that the ring actually increases the range of the advance by allowing the timing advance piston to move further at higher engine speeds. I presume this further advances injection. I don't think that the degree of advance is changed at lower engine speed. If this is correct (please change my words if not), then I will at least tell / correct the supplier. Even so, I doubt that would change his mind. So if I fit the kit I now have, I won't have any further informal warranty support. Maybe that doesn't matter too much. Also, how do I get that rear-most torx screw out with the FIP in place? It appears to be impossible. At least I haven't fitted my front timing case yet! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Your correct. It allows more advance not alters the advance curve, that's what the shims do.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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