AJL Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Well so much for Trev's independent operation over at his forum.....No sorry LRM's Forum He's pulled the anti scrapiron post!!! Isnt it great to be able to say pretty much what you like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 You're welcome to make whatever assumptions you like, but you have got it wrong. My opinion was that the thread, which was mainly contributed to by LR4x4 regulars, should be allowed to run it's course. However, the majority of the moderators at the Land Rover Addict Froums wanted the thread moved. I complied with their wishes. Good to see that you visit now and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 However, the majority of the moderators at the Land Rover Addict Froums wanted the thread moved.I complied with their wishes. Why ? Who ? Just a lack of moral fibre ? or 'Head in sand' or 'turn the other cheek' ? Sorry but thats just pityful excuse, and if you Trev were all for letting it run, then good on you, and Shame on them, how would they like it ? All respect to LR4x4.com then for having the courage of their convictions for showing and supporting Simon Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Coo which majority? first I knew of it! How about that then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Did I get that right? You complied with the mods wishes against your own! I'm now feeling somewhat lost for words but if I do find any I think I'll post them here where they tend to stay long enough for other to read (and ignore if they wish). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Trev, Very dubious response I fear. Simon is getting cheated and it's fairly cut and dry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Some mods wishes Trev, some mods.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I'm happy to put it back, but of those who expressed an opinion, the majority wanted it locked or moved. When everyone has expressed their opinion, we'll have a re-count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 No doubt that Scrapiron are being a bit mean. but christ, i wish some folks would get off the fuggin high horses of "this forum" and "that forum" its broken record playing over and over in a childhood playground sometimes. am I baised? nah - dont think so. i help out, yes. but I dont have a preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 christ, i wish some folks would get off the fuggin high horses of "this forum" and "that forum" I agree with you there Donald! but I do like the colour scheme over here! hehe btw Trev's response was lame Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 No doubt that Scrapiron are being a bit mean. but christ, i wish some folks would get off the fuggin high horses of "this forum" and "that forum" its broken record playing over and over in a childhood playground sometimes. am I baised? nah - dont think so. i help out, yes. but I dont have a preference. Good on yer Don! And as for the whole business, if any of you including SImon (who I support whole heartedly) are naive enough to think that good products won't be 'almost copied' then you need to grow up and smell the flowers. Colin is a business man in a tough industry and if he can make an extra buck then he will. The only reason the post count has hit the roof is because this time it's someone we all know. The blatant 'almost copies' of Southdown/Mantec/Equipe/MJLee/AliSport and so many others over the years is just the way it goes. No I don't like it, no I don't condone it, yes it has annoyed the hell out of me because I like old Simon and I think he is a bloody clever bloke but it's life. So why not stop nit picking at who did what with whom and when and get on with life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyliam Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 btw Trev's response was lame it had nothing to do with me but it does sound rather democratic, has the scrapiron topic been on other forums? if so has it lasted there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Good on yer Don! then you need to grow up and smell the flowers. Dave I only pointed out the deletion to provoke debate in an open forum Just Didnt want to see the forum "SENESCING" as per your concerns earlier in the week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 btw Trev's response was lame I'm going to back Trev on this one - we often make decisions (particularly on issues like this where if action is going to be taken it needs to be done quickly) based on a vote by those mods and admins who happen to be on the site at the time. It would be nice to wait 'til all votes are in, but the reality is that some mods might not be around for days, and we don't generally know when they'll next be about. We had a similar discussion in the mods forum on here - guess you already know which way that went - and our decision was not based on a full vote either. It comes down to a practical compromise between democracy and dictatorship - the latter is far more efficient, the former our ideal but not always achievable in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landi41 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Why ?Who ? Just a lack of moral fibre ? or 'Head in sand' or 'turn the other cheek' ? Sorry but thats just pityful excuse, and if you Trev were all for letting it run, then good on you, and Shame on them, how would they like it ? All respect to LR4x4.com then for having the courage of their convictions for showing and supporting Simon Nige OK lads..... I for one insisted that it be pulled and my position was from one of fairness....after all if anyone called you lot a bunch of assholes, i'd have done the same thing..... Dave Redfern LR Addict Defender Forum mod..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 according to D90 Source forum i/we are "dissing" Scrapiron????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Ok, I didn't agree with the post about scrapiron. I based my opinion on the fact, if this or that forum was in NA, and a post popped up like that one, there would be a sale on law suits. Also, outright name and shame has never been the policy of LRA forum. The best example, is Tomas's post. My opinion of what happened....shameless! Simon developed a wonderful product of a very high standard. Some how, scrapiron got wind of it, found out that Simon had no protection for the product and then it was copied. Once again, a good guy in the Land Rover Community has been "had". Shameless! Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 And as for the whole business, if any of you including SImon (who I support whole heartedly) are naive enough to think that good products won't be 'almost copied' then you need to grow up and smell the flowers.Colin is a business man in a tough industry and if he can make an extra buck then he will. The only reason the post count has hit the roof is because this time it's someone we all know. The blatant 'almost copies' of Southdown/Mantec/Equipe/MJLee/AliSport and so many others over the years is just the way it goes. I do agree - and I was not naive enough to believe it would not happen - but Col did give me his word that SR would not copy it - along with some blurb about supporting innovation etc. I didn't expect it to explode in the way it has - although I appreciate all the support. It may be as well just to let it lie now. I had a chat with Col today - he reckons that it is not a copy, in fact he is doing me a favour by improving the design and of course, he was going to let me in on it - even though the improved design would be sold as their own. If this happened to every good idea that came along - the whole market would be dominated by one company selling (almost) copies. Any companies coming up with anything new would just fold and let them have it for their own - wait a minute - is that a floral smell? - that's what we have now! The situation will only change if those involved put up a fight rather than just shrug our respective shoulders and move on to the next target. Rest assured however that where possible, future products will have some protection in the form of EU Community registered designs. This will at best only act as a deterrant as I for one do not have the resources to persue it through the courts. The down side of this is it adds a lot to the development cost. I have already shelved three products for the time being which would be easy to copy, but the pay-back time on the protection makes them worthless. Perhaps I should just skip the middle-man and send the designs directly to Colin? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landi41 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I do agree - and I was not naive enough to believe it would not happen - but Col did give me his word that SR would not copy it - along with some blurb about supporting innovation etc.I didn't expect it to explode in the way it has - although I appreciate all the support. It may be as well just to let it lie now. I had a chat with Col today - he reckons that it is not a copy, in fact he is doing me a favour by improving the design and of course, he was going to let me in on it - even though the improved design would be sold as their own. If this happened to every good idea that came along - the whole market would be dominated by one company selling (almost) copies. Any companies coming up with anything new would just fold and let them have it for their own - wait a minute - is that a floral smell? - that's what we have now! The situation will only change if those involved put up a fight rather than just shrug our respective shoulders and move on to the next target. Rest assured however that where possible, future products will have some protection in the form of EU Community registered designs. This will at best only act as a deterrant as I for one do not have the resources to persue it through the courts. Dear Simon... I don't know you and i'm sure you are a fine engineer but i admire your realalistic view of the current events......same old bull****...those that have gets......... Your best bet" is to get a cut The down side of this is it adds a lot to the development cost. I have already shelved three products for the time being which would be easy to copy, but the pay-back time on the protection makes them worthless. Perhaps I should just skip the middle-man and send the designs directly to Colin? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guilford Dave Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Ok, I didn't agree with the post about scrapiron. I based my opinion on the fact, if this or that forum was in NA, and a post popped up like that one, there would be a sale on law suits. Also, outright name and shame has never been the policy of LRA forum. If this had been NA Scrapiron would not of got away with such a blatant copy with out being knee deep in Lawyers I had a chat with Col today - he reckons that it is not a copy, in fact he is doing me a favour by improving the design and of course, he was going to let me in on it - even though the improved design would be sold as their own. Favours like that you can do without. Yes we all know it goes on in business. Chinas wealth is probably based on copying. To some extent we are all as bad, something comes on the market and we try and find the manafacturer to buy direct or a cheaper supplier. On a larger scale we all see the obvious attempts to copy items like Warn Winches and Simex tyres etc. So why is this any different. To my mind the big difference here is ethics. Scrapiron had a trading releationship with X Engineering not as two faceless companys but with the two head honchos of the the companys knowing each other and having face to face dealings. For any man to be that unscrupulous as to rip off a supplier and thats was this is, a rip off, who you know the the owner designer and engineer are all one and the same, and you have met face to face , deserves to be named and shamed. And we should stick together to condem Scrapiron not necassaryaly for Si's sake, not just because we are a bunch of LR lovers users, but because its not bluddy ethical, and decency and honesty still mean something and unscruplous behavior deserves being brought to the attention of everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Good on yer Don! And as for the whole business, if any of you including SImon (who I support whole heartedly) are naive enough to think that good products won't be 'almost copied' then you need to grow up and smell the flowers. Colin is a business man in a tough industry and if he can make an extra buck then he will. The only reason the post count has hit the roof is because this time it's someone we all know. The blatant 'almost copies' of Southdown/Mantec/Equipe/MJLee/AliSport and so many others over the years is just the way it goes. No I don't like it, no I don't condone it, yes it has annoyed the hell out of me because I like old Simon and I think he is a bloody clever bloke but it's life. So why not stop nit picking at who did what with whom and when and get on with life. This is all true, but, usually when an innovative product has been copied, but the copiers almost invariably spend some time updating, improving or modifying the design- or else they fall foul of patenting laws. In this case Simon can't realistically be expected to patent all his ideas, so the general populace is reacting in a fair manner. SR should have expected this- and blatantly doesn't care, which is why even more people are getting Mildly miffed off. It is also clear that Simon is a true enthusiast, whereas SR are just money makers, and i know who i would rather support (if not for ethical reasons, than purely that an enthusisat will be more careful, more productive, more effective, and probably offer better customer service!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Should make interesting reading when Bigfoot does his monthly round-up of the Land Rover Forums scene in the magazine column. Lets see if we get objective journalism, accurately reporting the events of the past few days. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 [OT] Hello Trevor, did you read my last email? Let me know so I can finally fix that banner. [/OT] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 The D90 SOURCE are saying that they have to hear both sides of the story (fair comment) i have directed them to this thread to read Simons account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 LRO have pulled it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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