new defender

[Retroanaconda]

If it looks anything like any of those, I will eat my hat.

[GBMUD]

The suggestion of an 8-speed auto means that a 2.0l engine could afford to have a very narrow power/torque band without compromising the drive too badly. A modern 2.0l TD should be able to make enough torque low enough down. OK, it is a 2.2l but the Freelander2 Td4 does most of it's work below 2000rpm - indeed, it is quite surprising! The new Defender might offer a few pleasant surprises in MPG too.

Chris

[Landy-Novice]

yuk. well. the sport would be quite nice if renamed to the freelander sport.

i was thinking the same thing!!

If it looks anything like any of those, I will eat my hat.

right, you said that! and you may regret it!

i just hope this idea stays on paper!! id much rather they made the Land Rover LCV than this

[Bowie69]

yuk. well. the sport would be quite nice if renamed to the freelander sport. looks quite freelanderish

Agreed! It's just a Freelander, with no Defenderishness in it at all.

Maybe they are using it as a design exercise for both Freelander 3 and Defender 2....

Oh, and 2.0TDI engines, such as the BMW 190BHP one I am sure would be fine in a defender, with appropriate gearing.

*Edit* Sorry, not 190BHP, but 204BHP, from 2.0l!

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/BMW_N47

[Landy-Novice]

more info from thetwat him self..

Edited September 13, 2011 by Landy-Novice

[SteveG]

The suggestion of an 8-speed auto means that a 2.0l engine could afford to have a very narrow power/torque band without compromising the drive too badly. A modern 2.0l TD should be able to make enough torque low enough down. OK, it is a 2.2l but the Freelander2 Td4 does most of it's work below 2000rpm - indeed, it is quite surprising! The new Defender might offer a few pleasant surprises in MPG too.

Chris

VW 2.0TDI in my 1700kg 4x4 estate performs well and has 170bhp, 320Nm between 1750-2500 rpm. Also does 45mpg in mixed driving. So going by outputs of current 2.4 Puma lump a modern 2l should be enough.

[landroversforever]

The volvo D4 lump would go quite nicely in a defender.... 177PS and 400NM . Not sure the transmission will hold up to it mind

[FridgeFreezer]

I do wonder about the 8-speed box, as do Sniffpetrol

more info from thetwat him self..

So what exact part of that didn't you like? As far as I can tell he said:

- It's a concept, it's not actually the new defender (please extinguish your hair and go about your business)

- The new one will be the same price if not cheaper (workhorse not show pony)

- The new one will be aimed at commercial as well as retail (still a multi-purpose/utility vehicle)

- The new one will be robust, built for abuse, designed for people/organisations like the red cross ("everyone please stop buying Toyotas, pleeeeease")

- The new one will be available in a variety of body styles / wheelbases just like the current one

- The new one is aimed at global / "emerging markets" = all the people who currently rock round in shagged out land cruisers / hiluxes laden with goats and/or AK47's.

- They're hoping to sell more than the best ever sales (which was of Series not these poncey Defender things)

- You've got until 2015 to buy a "proper" one if you don't like it.

To me that sounds like they are really taking it seriously, not falling into the route of making it a watered-down "lifestyle" tribute act like the new beetle or Mini, and going after some tough competition (The cheap workshorse pikey pickup / transit market, the more reliable japanese stuff like TLC's and Patrols that people like the UN have all shifted to, and Tata's home ground of people upgrading from donkeys).

So, if they are aiming to make the new defender cheaper, more reliable, at least as versatile, robust and easy to maintain, sell in greater volumes, and grab market share back from Toyota and Nissan... what's not to like about that plan?

[tuko]

All the negative feedback that I've been reading on the various sites in cyberspace.

The question which comes to mind is, now that the "concept" vehicle has been presented to the public at the German Auto Show especially to the journalists that write in the Land Rover magazines, what will be there take on it? Will they express the same views as the growing masses against it or in favour for increased sales?

It's obvious after spending an hour with Evoque #434 today that Land Rover has taken a page out of Fords book and are homogenizing their line up with fewer, similar platforms. The DC100 has the similarities of the Freelander II and the Evoque but I do hope that they keep the live axles, simplicity that we enjoy today with Defenders.

It's inevitable that the Defender is going to cease production, sooner rather than later. So wouldn't it be wise that we somehow gave Land Rover our wish list of what we want to see in the next Defender, sooner rather than too late?

Todd.

[tuko]

Here's an other render:

[Ed Poore]

Here's an other render:

Can't help but thing it needs a bigger tub for the back in that render...

[Daan]

We all seem to be focusing on engine performance, but the most important thing will be weight: if we know how much weight does it need to move we can say something about how well it goes with these size engines.

It has freewheeling hubs though, so probs no LT230 transfer box. Is there a facility for a PTO?

Daan

[brighouse shed]

.

It has freewheeling hubs though, so probs no LT230 transfer box. Is there a facility for a PTO?

Daan

PTO Pretty Things on Outside ohhh yes sir lots of little Chromey bits and on the inside manbag hooks a plenty

But on a serious note the side view works aside from cartoon wheels, front needs to lose the freelander grill as per sport render. I have hope that the Toyota retro can be repeated

[FridgeFreezer]

It has freewheeling hubs though, so probs no LT230 transfer box. Is there a facility for a PTO?

How do you work out the freewheeling hubs then? I thought they'd probably be using the same Haldex clutch as is used on the freelander 2 to disconnect the drive to the rear.

I imagine they'd also be dipping into the Range Rover / Disco parts bucket for the transmission much as they did with the original Defender. LT230 is a museum piece, so not at all surprised if they go to something new.

[Landy-Novice]

I do wonder about the 8-speed box, as do Sniffpetrol

So what exact part of that didn't you like? As far as I can tell he said:

- It's a concept, it's not actually the new defender (please extinguish your hair and go about your business)

- The new one will be the same price if not cheaper (workhorse not show pony)

- The new one will be aimed at commercial as well as retail (still a multi-purpose/utility vehicle)

- The new one will be robust, built for abuse, designed for people/organisations like the red cross ("everyone please stop buying Toyotas, pleeeeease")

- The new one will be available in a variety of body styles / wheelbases just like the current one

- The new one is aimed at global / "emerging markets" = all the people who currently rock round in shagged out land cruisers / hiluxes laden with goats and/or AK47's.

- They're hoping to sell more than the best ever sales (which was of Series not these poncey Defender things)

- You've got until 2015 to buy a "proper" one if you don't like it.

To me that sounds like they are really taking it seriously, not falling into the route of making it a watered-down "lifestyle" tribute act like the new beetle or Mini, and going after some tough competition (The cheap workshorse pikey pickup / transit market, the more reliable japanese stuff like TLC's and Patrols that people like the UN have all shifted to, and Tata's home ground of people upgrading from donkeys).

So, if they are aiming to make the new defender cheaper, more reliable, at least as versatile, robust and easy to maintain, sell in greater volumes, and grab market share back from Toyota and Nissan... what's not to like about that plan?

dont get me wrong, what he SAID was fine, what its about is a completely different matter! the defender is nothing like a normal defender, they've restyled a freelander and called it defender i'd pay to see the new dc100 with 11 bales of straw inside!!, come on! do you really think its an off roader? 21" rims? look at it! its more of a school run car and shopping afterwards! going back to the things he said, reliability? haha i no a couple of people who bough £60,000 range rovers and didn't make it home........ and the fact that they WILL move manufacture to the middle east doesn't sound like it going to improve that much if at all. do you think there's a reason the have clapped out LC and hilux's? its because they cant afford them!! we have a BMW worth £300 just because they have released an £80.000 model that's better than our doesn't mean WE MUST BUY IT!! if that's what the got, that's what they will stick to. and moving to America, yes amazing idea, why did they stop!! they should of made the currant model available to them!! could of made a killing! its no that i dont like there plans, (anything to **** on nissan and toyota's) but they have to keep it real!! with the defender vs dc100, theres to much change, they already have a good base to work from! as standard it should have, ally chassis, galv bulkhead, thicker body panels and a bigger diesel and a BIG petrol!! and to crease out a few minor hitches. even tho they will never put an ally chassis there 'cause replacements make them so much money! i just hope the keep it realistic a few exterior change, FINE but what they have shown us is what the developers are like off the leads.... there is just no need for a radical change. and i hope they realise that!! quickly!

[JJB Serenity]

8 speed box? gears 1 - 3 to replace the necessity of a low range box, gears 4 - 8 for ordinary 'on-road' driving?

[landroversforever]

An Alli chassis would never hold up. A friend at work used to work for land rover and said they trialled one but it couldn't stand up to the repeated loading like steel can. (I think it was a discovery).

Also, the reason LR couldn't sell the current range of defenders in the US was because of the safety legislation they have out there. One thing in particular being vehicles having to have airbags.

[GBMUD]

We all seem to be focusing on engine performance, but the most important thing will be weight: if we know how much weight does it need to move we can say something about how well it goes with these size engines.

Assuming it is to tow 3.5 tonnes, and I hope it will, the all-up weight will not be that different to the current model - OK, the car might be 500Kg lighter. With talk of 2.0l engines producing 300+NM of torque at reasonably low engine speed and 8-speed gearboxes one assumes that towing will not be an issue.

Bring on the CVT, the engine can stay at peak torque and the gear ratio can change round it to match desired speed/acceletation! Not much of a "driver's" car though.

I thought they'd probably be using the same Haldex clutch as is used on the freelander 2 to disconnect the drive to the rear.

Bloody good thing too! Ours is brilliant, you would never know it was not full time 4WD.

Chris

[Daan]

I meant that, it is on the rr axle in the diff; modern equivalent of free wheel hubs. Still, I need a PTO, or I wont buy it.

500 kg would be a very big saving from where we are now and well worth having.

I have noticed they went back to recessed doorhandles, which is a very good idea if you start bashing trees. All we need now is sliding windows.

Daan

[GBMUD]

500 kg would be a very big saving from where we are now and well worth having.

Yup, it is a lot and I have trouble seeing it, but lighter weight means more MPG and LR as a company need to keep their average CO² down - Defender would seem an ideal vehicle to achieve that as it will also make it more attractive to fleet buyers.

Chris

[Landy-Novice]

8 forward gear.. it has a tranny!!! with hi and low!!!!!!

[Landy-Novice]

found another picture of it at the motor show.

[Jimbo_C]

I found this about the tech content inthe engineer,

Land Rover has unveiled a new off-road vehicle as part of its plan to replace the Defender model by 2015.

The DC100 concept incorporates features such as 3D terrain mapping, sonar gauging of water depth and an inductive strip in the rear for charging power tools and electronic equipment.

Speaking to The Engineer at the IAA motor show in Frankfurt, chief designer Oliver Le Grice said the project team had kept in mind the Defender’s current diverse clientèle, ranging from farmers and ecologists to UN aid workers.

‘The things that you want to hold onto with the Defender are the engineering integrity and approachability, so we had to keep all of that in the mix but then really update it as something appropriate for this century,’ he said.

Central to this new technology is the Terrain-i mapper that creates a virtual 3D visualisation of the ground ahead and displays it on the central touchscreen. Similar to systems used by fighter pilots, Terrain-i uses a headlamp-mounted scanner that runs algorithms to assess the route ahead and warn the driver of obstacles potentially too large to be safely negotiated.

‘It can make a very accurate judgement as to what you’re approaching, whether it be snow or sand, giving it a clear picture of what to programme in to allow you to tackle it,’ Le Grice said.

The concept also incorporates driver-deployable spikes, by way of an electro-mechanical system mounted within the tyre on the inside of the wheel. Activation causes air to inflate a secondary air chamber, filling pods moulded into the tread of the tyre that contain the spikes.

Meanwhile, a sonar-based ‘wade aid’ system assesses water depth working in conjunction with inclinometers to recognise whether the level is increasing or decreasing.

‘If you’re trying to ford a river it’ll figure out the depth and whether it’s something that you should attempt or not before you’ve actually committed yourself,’ Le Grice said.

Read more: http://www.theengineer.co.uk/1010002.article?cmpid=TE01&cmptype=newsletter&cmpdate=140911&email=true#ixzz1Xvpb4vQ0

Personally I think the terrain mapping sounds pretty cool as an option on the car (not on base spec) but I suspect that most Landrover fans may have other ideas.

[SteveG]

8 speed box? gears 1 - 3 to replace the necessity of a low range box, gears 4 - 8 for ordinary 'on-road' driving?

8 speed are becoming more widespread and in US are just starting to make it onto high volume mid range cars. It's purely for economical driving. You achieve better mpg with with 8 speed boxes.

[disco2hse]

more info from thetwat him self..

Military is not their market anymore and LR were uncompetitive in it. The military Defenders could not sell in their traditional markets (e.g. Oz, NZ, S Africa, etc.) and they could not be easily adapted for protection against the IUDs that kill so many in hot spots around the world.

Farmers don't buy them, they buy Toyotas or Isuzus, or tractors or quads. Construction engineers and miners aren't buying them much anymore because they are too expensive (?) and it has been a long time since I saw a new Defender ambulance that is outside Britain.

NGOs will buy whatever is available and cheapish. There is no brand loyalty.

They long ago decided they were going to aim at the luxury market (with the huge success of the Range Rover). Rightly or wrongly. So all their new models are lifestyle oriented - just look for example at what they did to the Camel Trophy/G4. It went from a hard core man and machine contest with nature to a gay metrosexual sashay through the mountains and rivers. Why else would they say in the Frankfurt presentation that the Sport has enough room in the rear for "sport equipment".

The company is targetting the nouveau riche in China and India. That's where the real money is and Tata have the infrastructure in place to do it. It makes more sense to manufacture close to their markets so I reckon you will see these being made in SE Asia by the ship load.

This redesign caters for all that is luxury and metrosexual, with a little touch of the dangerous for the thrill seeker.

Land Rover have deserted their core market. They are not interested in your ardor anymore, they want the bucks not the loyalty.