Get a Grip

[Oakmaster]

I live on the top of a steep hill – when it snows It's only me (well me and the Tractor) who can get up to the top. To be honest this says more about the Defender than me – but many of the Japanese don’t seem to manage it.

This is great in fresh snow, but what goes up must come down – and after we have pioneered a route for everybody to come and polish it, going downhill is an uncontrolled bobsleigh ride.

The ABS brakes just make it worse. I often come down sideways reliant on the steep banks to funnel, me through the ‘S’ bends

When descending we are like everybody else – 4 Wheel braking – only we have about half a ton of redundant castings to add to the momentum.

I then thought of my girlfriends BMW, and the fact it wont go anywhere in the snow (She had to buy a Disco to get to work) and wondered how the rest of the world does it. – Obvious when you think about it – they all use winter tyres in Germany and the USA.

SO – I wondered what the collective experience was with regard to winter tyres? I assume that they are not the same as mud pluggers? I mean something that will grip on polished frozen sheet ice, not something that will scrabble up through deep snow. (I'm lucky enough to have a second (old V8) defender with big Mud Campaigners for that job)

I’d welcome people sharing their experiences of winter tyres, and recommendations for Winter tyres (which I assume will be road biased – which is fine by me) suitable for a Defender 110 fitment.

if you are still reading - thanks for sticking with it this far

Cheers

[paulnb57]

Winter tyres have a softer compound than "normal" tyres and so grip better - apparently a normal tyre starts to become less effective at about 3degrees........experts consider all terrains to be better than muds for snow - you want the tread to clog with snow - then the snow in the treads grips the snow on the ground..........apparently

Paul

[Pastycrimper]

I have some offshore mates who live in Norway with Landys or other 4x4s. They all clearly make a distinction between snow and ice. That is in the snow - AT or as mentioned above softer compound winter tyres. However a chap on board here has a similar problem to you - lives at the top of a steep hill. No trouble in snow but the moment its ice he HAS to use studded tyres. In Norway this is common for people in rural/mountainous areas where studs are vital (you have to pay a surcharge tax for using studded tyres). No idea what the regs are in the UK

[sharkey964]

Studded tyres are illegal on public roads in the UK.Even winter tyres are'nt going to be much use on sheet ice.

So the only other and best alternative,IMO,is snow chains.

They are a PITA to put on and take off,but will stop you skidding on sheet ice/pollished snow.

[FridgeFreezer]

Winter tyres have a lot of sipes (the small slits cut into them), that makes them really grip on ice. Google for Nokian Hakkapeliitta tyres, you can see the difference between them and normal tyres. Also a softer compound is used.

Whether you can get them in Defender sizes I don't know.

I would question why you're coming down the hill using the brakes when you're usually supposed to use engine braking as far as I understand it.

[simonr]

Ive seen how effective winter tyres can be in ski resorts - even on ice and packed snow. They seemed to perform almost as well as studs or chains - at least up to a point. Our driver absolutely swore by them. He picked us up from Moutiers (no snow) and dropped off in Courcheval (pack ice, snow, very slippy) but he was totally unfazed by any of it! Next time I plan to drive - and winter tyres will be on my shopping list!

Si

[zoltan]

I have Michelin XPC 7.5x16 tyres on my 110. These are I believe what used to be fitted as standard equipment on new vehicles with the steel wheels. They are specified as a winter tyre by Michelin

They are utterly brilliant on the hardpacked snow as they have a very generous siped pattern. They give good traction, braking and lateral stability in both fresh snow and the hardpacked neve. I was pleasantly surprised at how well they worked

I use them year round as they are quite hard wearing and only fit the knobblies if I am going in the mud. I don't think they are available new anymore but you should be able to score some on the popular auction site.

[Oakmaster]

I would question why you're coming down the hill using the brakes when you're usually supposed to use engine braking as far as I understand it.

Fair comment, - the big danger is first thing in the morning, not getting a good grasp on how slippy it is, and getting up too much momentum. (too much is anything over walking pace) The hill is steep enough in parts to cause you to break away even using engine breaking.

[Greenmobile]

AT tyres are fine on new snow, but as you've found on hard packed snow/ice, it's another story. With studs being illegal on public roads in the UK, you're a bit limited when it comes to ice. A non-studded 'proper' winter tyre is the next best bet on ice or hard packed snow.

Cooper Discoverer are popular here and I know quite a few who are really impressed by them.

[russianfrog]

Snow has come for good around here and after several winters driving with Diff/Lock on snowy roads, I am considering getting a proper set of winter tyres.

My 2007' Puma 110 is equiped with new General Grabber AT and it is as polyvalent as they claim. However, it is rather scary when the road is icy.

I am considering breaking my piggy bank and getting some Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT2. They seem to have good reviews.

Does anyone drives with them? Is the price worth the safety/comfort they bring?

[Lars L]

I bought a set of studded Hakka LT (w/o the 2) in time for last winter. I've also had studded Cooper Discoverer M+S on my previous One Ten. Can't say that there is any difference between the two brands. Safety is drastically improved when comparing them to all-terrains with rubber compound unsuitable for colder temps.

The pattern of the Coopers is a little more open which might be better when driving in snow. Or not...

[dantastic]

I have quite a lot of experience in snowy cold climate. There is plenty of grip on snow, even packed snow with fresh winter tyres. Winter tyres are made of a different compound that respond better to the cold. But do note that after a couple of years they are not as effective anymore. Similarly as already noted, a good regular tyre will start getting less effective (harden) at 3-5 degrees already.

On actual ice ice there are a few tyres on offer in scandinavia that promises to be almost as good as studded tyres. They are not but they are miles better than your regular all year tyres. On proper ice there really isn't much you can do. Chains or preferably don't leave the house if at all possible.

Most of the time though people equate very packed snow with ice though and packed snow the winter tires can deal with no problem.

On a regular car it is definitely worth it even if you won't be seeing that much snow as the winter tyres have a deeper thread allowing to push more water away as well.

The other thing is your driving style. I was taught when I was learning to drive to imagine I had an egg between the foot and the pedal. Press the pedal so to not break the egg. If you drive gently like that you vastly increase your chances.

so yea, even in the UK it's a good idea to invest in a set of winter boots. They will make a huge difference.

[q-rover]

A tyre marked M+S is NOT a snow tyre.

"There are no traction performance requirements which such a tire has to meet; M&S relates to the percentage of tread void area."

If you want a snow tyre, you have to look for tyres marked with a snowflake and mountain.

Nokian, Bridgestone Blizzak, Yokohama, Cooper all make good snow tyres for 4x4s.

[BogMonster]

I have just come back from northern Norway where, unsurprisingly, there is a bit of snow around and it is compulsory to fit snow tyres in winter. I was amazed - I'd never seen them in action. On hard packed snow the locals all tear around like anybody driving on dry tarmac, both in normal cars and 4x4s. It took me a couple of days to get out of the habit of "sheeeeeeiiii*" coming up to every tight corner because all my senses (bred on normal ATs at home - BFGs and General Grabber AT2s) told me there wasn't a hope of making the turn. I'd not bother with real snow tyres at home, because we don't get enough snow, but they are very, very effective!

[mikec]

Why not get some chains, I've just bought a pair for my Astra and a pair for my landy, both 2nd hand Thule ones, I've only tried fitting the ones on the 90 to try them out but they were very quick to put on, 5 mins. They won't be the best or hardest wearing but I'm sure they'd be ok for your needs. I tried fitting the set on my astravan but struggled due to the small gap between arch nd wheel

[eds]

Studded tyres are legal in the UK when there is a need for them. IE when ice "maybe" present.

I have many friends who use studded tyres in Northumberland throughout the winter.

[russianfrog]

Thank you for all these comments. They are most helpful.

I'm probably going to get a set of Hakka, I don't seem to find the other ones in my region. Even if they are expensive, I think it will be less than an accident anyway.

Stups are attractive but I need something to drive together on snowy tracks, icy regular roads and clean main roads. Chains are good only if you don't plan to drive on normal road (and the Grabber AT are fantastic in one foot of snow!). I think stups are forbidden down here, in Czech Republic.

I have winter tyres on my other car, and it is bliss to drive when the temperature goes down, I feel very safe with them. I simply did not know if specific winter tyres existed for Defender, now I know it does!

[SvBeek]

And dont forget to switch back to normal tyres when the temperature starts to rise again. Because of the soft rubber winter tyres wear very quickly if you drive them in summer conditions.

[q-rover]

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Just a note, if a tyre is studdable, then it should have studs. This is due to the compound and design

are based on using studs in the tyre, and alrhough it may work without, they won't be as effective.

[Smego]

Snow chains, studs etc arnt illegal on UK but you can be done for causing damage to a public highway, problem is lots of coppers still think they are illegal.

[simonr]

I've seen a lot of people in Ski resorts using 'Snow Socks' - effectively a snow chain made from plastic. They appear very effective on hard-packed snow, so are probably at least slightly more effective on ice compared to a regular tyre. They only took a minute or two to fit and pack up into a small bag.

They were made from plastic mesh - a bit like the stuff oranges used to be packed in, with elastic edges - I suppose a bit like a hair-net for your wheel.

I think these might be a good option for occasional use?

Si

[Oakmaster]

I for one would be very pleased to hear from anyone having experience of snow socks?

[Smego]

I know people who have them, they are very good and Di what they claim to, the issue is nless they are on lots of compacted snow they wear out very quickly.

[From]

Another option is to sipe the tyre, you can do it yourself either with a utility knife or with a siping tool. I brought this: http://pitstopusa.com/i-5076680-allstar-performance-tire-siper-14-blade-red.html last year and after I siped my BFG AT tyre, they grip much better - probably not as good as a studded tyre, but way better than a standard BFG AT tyre.

[reb78]

How long does it take to sipe a bfg at manually? Also, how deep have you gone? Do they return to normal as they wear in the spring ready for re-siping the next winter?