EU attacking us again?

[nickwilliams]

Like I said, I'm not going to get into a debate on the politics of the EU on this forum - this is a technical forum for Landrovers; there are better places for political debate.

However, with regard to the way in which this may pass into law, the procedure for Statutory Instruments is subject to parliamentary oversight and the measure will have to be debated if enough MP's question the proposed legislation when it is laid before Parliament. This is why it is important to make sure we get our concerns on the radar of our MPs.

As I have already said, concerns about proposals for legislation will largely fall on deaf ears unless they are specific and are focussed on what has actually been proposed rather than hearsay. To that end, there is not a lot of point in making a big fuss with MPs right now - we need to wait until the SI (or a draft) is published and then complain about specific points in it. In the meanwhile, we need to continue to work on the civil servants who will actually draft the legislation.

Nick.

[CwazyWabbit]

So we wait to see what the dft say to the information you kindly sent them and work with them first, once there is a draft Statutory Instrument we then work on the MP's? Is there a way to find out when the draft SI is ready?

[nickwilliams]

Hmm, I may need to take back some of what I said in my last post. I've just looked at the Commission proposal again and noticed that it's a proposal for a Commission Regulation, not for a Directive.

Regulations take direct effect in EU Member States so there is no need for national legislation. This means that there won't be a Statutory Instrument.

On some levels this is good since it means that the DfT can't gold plate the proposal, but it also means that we need to ensure that the submission I made to the DfT does actually get to the Commission.

I've just e-mailed the Commission contact points to find out where best to send the comments.

Nick.

[Gazzar]

Nick, sounds like you know what you are doing. What can we do to help?

G.

[DrRob]

Nick, sounds like you know what you are doing. What can we do to help?

G.

Give him moral support! Go Nick!

[Gazzar]

Will they ban hand free car kits? LPG conversions? ex-military vehicles? How will they tell the difference between Landrover Sidesteps and non- landrover sidesteps? How about kit cars?

Will there be compensation, like there was after Dunblane and they banned handguns?

It's all very worrying?

[nickwilliams]

I've got some work commitments which mean I'm not going to have any time to spend on this over the next few days, although I should be able to forward the comments I made to the DfT to the Commission if I get a reply with the relevant e-mail addresses to send it to.

I think we need to keep trying to get the mainstream media interested in this so if others could work on that, it would be helpful.

Of the main broadsheet press, the Telegraph seems to have the most active motoring section, and the story might suit their agenda?

Nick.

[Gazzar]

Right,

I'll edit the various emails I've sent and send something off to them, I'll put it to their queries helpdesk first, something along the lines of " what am I going to do with my landrover - the EU want me to put the horribly inefficient petrol engine back into it and I won't be able for afford to run it?

I've had an interesting reply from another one of the MEPs - as soon as I get her approval I'll post it up here, but in summary she said "don't PANIC!!" and that it is really at a very early stage.

I still think that we need to be very active on this - I know that the permanent civil service just love introducing these ideas - keeps them employed and keeps the masses downtrodden and manageable - I also suspect that the narrow historic definition is to clear older cars off the road so they are replaced with modern cars, all of which will have a remote kill switch and monitoring fitted under other proposals. I suspect that the historic tax class will be restricted to apply to cars attending shows only, and the like. I'm Paranoid, I admit, but with reason.

Eric Blair - how right you were.

G.

[Nigelw]

Might be a little off topic but could you quote Eric Blair for me as I fear I may have missed that one, might help out a few others who are none the wiser too LOL.

I fail to see how the proposals can work really, I have been in contact with a fellow Disco owner in Holland and there its sort of the same as in the UK, do as you like as long as it passes the safety inspections you are fine. They too have a well developed industry for aftermarket modifications and alterations to vehicles, and the wave of action is about to begin in Holland, They are talking of doing much more than the letter writing and emailing we are, they are thinking more direct and obstructive actions to actually make the point that the proposals if they were to go ahead will kill an industry and put hundreds out of work and could potentially cost the governments millions in revenue each year due to folks not being able to do what they want with their money and so on and so on, you know the story as well as I do.

[discomikey]

its a mess...

if this actually goes through

my series 2 when finished will now be worth nothing, because it has a galvanised chassis, its not origional.

brian will be parked up for good.

and i will be driving a eurobox.

or not....

i dont care what they do or say, im still gonna keep driving Brian, im not gonna take ANY mods off.

im not giving into the massive pri i mean "no real life experience" politicians,

dont care if i end up with no liscence, as it takes the joy out of driving anyway.

and ill block up the entrance to downing street if needs be. WITHOUT A DPF!!!

[Gazzar]

One aspect I've raised with the MEP is the compensation arrangements, when hand guns were banned the owners were told they were entitled to compensation - we should raise the issue.

The Treasury is rather protective of its revenue and is very influential - If Mr Osborne learns he has to pay out 2 or 3bn to disgruntled motorists then he'll be most unhappy. Think of the LPG conversions that will have to be reversed, the hands free car kits, the cars with seat covers, the list goes on, and on!

G.

PS Eric Blair - a little known writer - used the pen name of George Orwell.

[mad_pete]

I think we should team up with the other 4x4 makes, the boy racers, the kit cars and all other modded vechiles and drive to London. Pick a Saturday and mod on up there. Direct action effectiveness depends on the policy. EU isn't that popular at the moment and Government is trying to portray it's cutting red tape and boosting the ecomnoy. Direct action forces a comment.

[landroversforever]

I think we should team up with the other 4x4 makes, the boy racers, the kit cars and all other modded vechiles and drive to London. Pick a Saturday and mod on up there. Direct action effectiveness depends on the policy. EU isn't that popular at the moment and Government is trying to portray it's cutting red tape and boosting the ecomnoy. Direct action forces a comment.

I like the idea of bringing london to a standstill . Only keep out of the LEZ so they can't rape our wallets.

[ejparrott]

aren't 30 year old vehciles excempt from LEZ? I thought you could take a smoky 2286 diesel 2a and not pay?

[CwazyWabbit]

aren't 30 year old vehciles excempt from LEZ? I thought you could take a smoky 2286 diesel 2a and not pay?

Historic vehicles are exempt ...... as are petrols ...... and stationwagons

[discomikey]

what about my "78 diesel pickup?

im well up for stampeding all the way to number ten if needs be.

[Nigelw]

I think we should team up with the other 4x4 makes, the boy racers, the kit cars and all other modded vechiles and drive to London. Pick a Saturday and mod on up there. Direct action effectiveness depends on the policy. EU isn't that popular at the moment and Government is trying to portray it's cutting red tape and boosting the ecomnoy. Direct action forces a comment.

I am not so sure about the blocking London thing, I (in my personal experience) have always found that sort of thing a little counter productive, it's like suddenly we are not just fighting to save our motors but to do we are happy to pi55 everyone else off, I know it makes a point but sometimes that point could well be better made using the boy racers who have affluence and influence over more folk living in the big cities and towns where they might be blissfully aware of this until suddenly it comes into force and the fluffy dice have to come off the rear view mirror and the whopping jag v12 has to be pried out from what was a 1ltr fiesta.

Please tell them about it tonight at the MacDonalds drive thru and let them look into it, but also think twice about blocking London, might do more harm than good.

[wanderlust4ever]

Won't be a lot better to try and get the other LR forum's on board, there must be at least another half a dozen out there

[cackshifter]

If you are going to block anything just do the airports, for random longer periods than weekdays. That should generate some screaming. A nice slow crawl, with a rota to cover an area. Or maybe just gridlock Chipping Norton for a few days. I wonder if armoured cars/Range Rovers etc would have to be approved.

[landroversforever]

Won't be a lot better to try and get the other LR forum's on board, there must be at least another half a dozen out there

There must be more than that!

LR4x4

Landyzone

Onelaughhaveit

land rover addict

Devon 4x4

Land rover net

Defender 2 forum

Innovate 4x4

LRO

Disco3

Thats just off the top of my head

[reb78]

Orrp

Ollr

....

[Jimmy Two-Jacks]

Sorry to be naive, So the other countries in the EU that already have periodical tests in line with the proposals don’t allow custom cars or kit cars. Is that correct, that all of their cars and bikes are factory standard?

[Nigelw]

Yes they all have periodic testing but they are actually proposing something that in THEORY makes sense, (note I made the theory bit bigger).

On the whole the EU is one big country, and each individual country that is a member stat is kind of a county, and this directive is aimed at bringing the counties into some sort of level field where there is a set standard across the EU and common policy for all of the member states to adhere to, no I don't for one minute condone the ridiculous proposals for over regulating the automotive transport of private citizens, yes originally I was a little doom and gloom, but I now see that it will badly affect not just Great Britain, the Netherlands will also have a nasty sting from this, Germany on the other hand with the TUV is by far the strictest controlling country for automotive control. I have been looking at this deeper and deeper, and there are just too many floors in this proposal that could have a very negative effect on the government if fully introduced, I think that there will, after much deliberation be a soft version introduced to begin limiting what we can do in terms of modifications and it will most likely have periodic reviews to tighten it up and the end result will be TUV, yes more doom and gloom but they will see our arguments and will realize that we have a point but at the same time they are weak and pathetic and will want to bow down to the EU and will offer to bring it all online but at a slower more progressive rate, and if we look at legislation now and galvanize it just so we can see the difference in ten years time.

Interesting point, I have a client who builds rally cars, he was not even aware that there was any proposals to alter what is already in force in the different states, just shows how well publicized this has not been!!! Don't worry, Belgium already harshly restricts what we can do here so it wont make so much difference to us but for those that are going to be burned badly I support you in your peaceful actions, please do not try strong arming or overly disrupting society, some of them are so heads in sand it will only make them support the other team just for a quiet life!!!

[tacr2man]

Bit more info from the inside so to speak (my work) they are also proposing directed mot , eg if you get stopped for a defect they can direct you to a testing station for a full MOT . This is causing a bit of a worry as they are shutting most of the HGV testing stations , also some of the other testing that would be required eg trailers inc caravans would be difficult to accommodate in the system the way it is currently arranged , so on the bright side this sort of thing will delay agreement/compliance ! There is also quite a bit of reaction from some of the poorer EU members due to the costs involved in bringing their systems upto what is basically the German system .

this is a bit of the propaganda /flannel

http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/frontpage/2012/12_80_en.htm

[Jimmy Two-Jacks]

So "worst day scenario" and it comes in to law how long do we have before we have to scrap all our vehicles?

Will we be offered perhaps a balloon or a goldfish for the scrap like the Rag and Bone man used to give for old mangles?