Nigelw Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Can anyone tell me of any factual legislation that could prevent the removal of ABS & SRS from a vehicle. Lots of hear say on t'internet, nobody can ever link a relevant paragraph or page to substantiate though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty43 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I don't know about legality (maybe type approval would include it?) but surely no insurance company would touch a car with a mod of that nature? I suspect there would also be liability issues if one skidded and crashed into someone else and subsequent investigations showed ABS would have prevented it. None of which answers your original question, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich broom Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Wouldn't pass an mot for a start. So can't be used on the road. End of story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiftedDisco Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Wot he said... I had issues with the ABS on my old D1 and contemplated removing it - spoke to our local MOT chap who advised that the basic spec of the vehicle would detaile the ABS which would mean it needs to be operational for the test. There's a similar argument about the removal of anti-roll bars if they were factory fitted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Wot he said... I had issues with the ABS on my old D1 and contemplated removing it - spoke to our local MOT chap who advised that the basic spec of the vehicle would detaile the ABS which would mean it needs to be operational for the test. There's a similar argument about the removal of anti-roll bars if they were factory fitted... Correct. Would imagine you would need an sva test at the least and they would probably fail it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Why would they fail it at an IVA? Test is for vehicle as presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Don't even go there. Vehicle is no longer as homologated and therefore you're going into a minefield. Good ABS should be trouble free and allows people to just hit the brakes without too much thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Why would they fail it at an IVA? Test is for vehicle as presented. I did say probably ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Just my 5 eggs. It wouldn't fail iva with no abs provided the brakes met the standard which they would. I had two 200 discos with no abs from new so can't see how you could prove it was there if completely removed. If disabled yes mot fail etc but if removed I'm not so sure. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 OK so someone removes abs from a vehicle which left the factory with it fitted ,doesn't get an iva test ,doesn't declare at MOT test that they have removed it and doesn't declare it to their insurance company ,then is involved in a fatal accident ,killing a pedestrian or driver of another vehicle ,you can't tell me you wouldn't be going to prison ,wether the removal of ABS made any difference in the accident or not it is without doubt what it would be blamed on .Not trying to be tinkle with people on here but I can't believe anyone thinks it is legal to remove ABS ,SRS etc . #tinkle # lol ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Can anyone tell me of any factual legislation that could prevent the removal of ABS & SRS from a vehicle. Lots of hear say on t'internet, nobody can ever link a relevant paragraph or page to substantiate though. I assume you are asking because you would like to remove the ABS/SRS from a vehicle - may I ask; why? If you have some off-roady reason for not wanting it there and functioning it would be possible to pull the fuse for the desired functions when not required. I would not suggest fitting a switch as, in the event of an investigation you might find yourself answering awkward questions... I have known Defender owners remove the ABS fuse to disable TC in soft sand as it seems to work against you. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmerfred Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Basically the answer is as most have already posted, if you remove any component from the vehicle that was fitted at manufacture then it will not qualify for roadworthiness, especially where any safety components are concerned, it will not pass an MOT. It is coming into force that any vehicle that was fitted with a catalytic converter but has been removed, will now be legally obliged to reinstate it. And then there's the question of insurance, you have to inform your insurance Company of any modifications to your vehicle, if you don't, your policy is void. In both instances of insurance and roadworthiness compliance, a vehicle must remain within the manufacturers specifications and modifications can only be performed within legal parameters, even changing your headlamp bulbs for stronger brighter ones in lots of cases is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The MOT manual is all online, you can view it here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehicles The Section regarding ABS says this: If an ABS or ESC system has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. However, this does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component e.g. brake disc or drive shaft. So based on that, it would happily pass an MOT if the system was fully deleted and non-ABS master cylinder and whatnot was installed in its place. Whereas simply pulling the fuse and leaving the ABS valve block in situ would be a fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ask your insurance company if they will insure you if you remove the ABS. That will tell you all you need to know. If they say yes, make sure you get that in writing ? Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The MOT manual is all online, you can view it here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehicles The Section regarding ABS says this: So based on that, it would happily pass an MOT if the system was fully deleted and non-ABS master cylinder and whatnot was installed in its place. Whereas simply pulling the fuse and leaving the ABS valve block in situ would be a fail. Very surprised at that ,shows what I know don't it !Might have to whip mine off the Disco then ,rather not have abs myself . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 In the case of the Discovery 1, ABS was an extra not fitted to all of them. This suggests that the vehicle is considered safe without it, and if it was all removed, rather than just disabled, there would not be a problem with the MOT or equivalent. Does the MOT show which ones had ABS when the vehicle number is entered at the start of the test? If not how would a tester know if it was originally fitted or not?. So it would seem the test manual ruling is reasonable. But that still leaves the insurance problem, which I suggest is the bigger issue. With the MOT the worst case is that it fails; with the insurance you could be stuck without insurance and facing a very large claim. With a "normal" claim the insurance may not find out that ABS was originally fitted, but what if you caused a really serious accident, perhaps something along the line of Great Heck? Every tiny detail would be gone over. Seems like they are the people to talk to before making a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Nice one Aragorn using facts on the internet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Nice one Aragorn using facts on the internet! I know i know ,lol .Still massively surprised that it's possible to remove it ,but it won't stop me sleeping tonight !RE Sheffield's question about it coming up on the computer ,I will ask my Ex boss at the MOT station . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yes it will give the test procedure, but will only follow what the manual says.... (I ran round the country for 6 months training MOT stations on using the system). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Basically the answer is as most have already posted, if you remove any component from the vehicle that was fitted at manufacture then it will not qualify for roadworthiness, especially where any safety components are concerned, it will not pass an MOT. It is coming into force that any vehicle that was fitted with a catalytic converter but has been removed, will now be legally obliged to reinstate it. And then there's the question of insurance, you have to inform your insurance Company of any modifications to your vehicle, if you don't, your policy is void. In both instances of insurance and roadworthiness compliance, a vehicle must remain within the manufacturers specifications and modifications can only be performed within legal parameters, even changing your headlamp bulbs for stronger brighter ones in lots of cases is illegal. Sorry but most if not all of this is inaccurate and not the whole truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmerfred Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 So it would seem that some things have changed on these issues then, I always thought that anything that was fitted to a vehicle at the time of manufacture had to remain in situ, it is possible to upgrade certain things but to downgrade, as in remove and fit earlier systems/components could possibly compromise the vehicles safety. Could be a very grey area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 So it looks like ABS is taken care of, what about the SRS airbag system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Farmer fred, I think what you are describing is what happens now in the Greater German Reich across the channel. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I removed the abs system from my old disco milk float. I piped it up as per a 90. It passed two mots with me and has done a few more since without a mention of abs. I appreciate that this may or may not make it legal but this is my real world experience. Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 From the removal and then MOT perspective it would be a pretty much certain winner in the roadworthiness question , on the insurance front that would be an entirely different question , as modification from the standard spec , that the insurance is provided on , based on risk analysis , and on which a specific question and warning is given, would be just as certain in its negative result on cover in event of a claim . So , if you mod then you need to be very clear with your ins co , as it could end up being financialy disastrous . JMHIO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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