=jon= Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Just wanted to pick the collective brains - which of the following do you think would be most likely for a trouble free main car - with a budget of £13-15K ish Late model D3.. RRS (likely diesel) FFRR (BMW v8 + LPG or a TDV8) Early D4 SDV6 The better half quite fancies the idea of a FFRR. My heart would quite like one too, but my head does research which seems to yield lots of electrical problems and some horror stories, but I'm not sure how much of it is a few unhappy people venting. There's also suggestions of needing to keep a multi-thousand pound pot of 'repair money' for when (not if!) something major goes wrong! Reviews of the D4 suggest that it's a whole load better than a D3 refinement wise, and seems to be reliable - apart from some reports of SDV6 cranks snapping.. Or are all of them likely to be a potential money pit, and I'm better off looking for something like an Outback which will go on forever, never go wrong but isn't a LR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Buy an Outback, the rest will leave you penniless. Harsh but true, the modern LR offerings have ridiculous repair bills and parts can be eye watering. People saying they spent 3-5k per annum on repairs never leads me to want to own one.... By then if you have the cash.... And really want it... Who is to stop you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I have to agree. I haven't owned any of the above, never will, and couldn't afford it anyway, but have done quite a bit of reading on the subject. Anything modern from JLR has so many expensive parts to go wrong it's ridiculous. That's where the horror stories come from where everything was fine and then all of a sudden something stops working and then there's a huge bill - if the problem was located, which doesn't always seem to be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think top 3 cars for most expensive repair bills are in your list so I'm not sure there is much between them. Get want you want and keep some cash for repairs. Get some warranty quotes for each that should help get an idea of which ones cost the most ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Ive pondered this question for several years now and have so far resisted buying any of them on the basis that my pockets aren't really deep enough! I'd love a FFRR, but even the tax post 06/07ish (? I think its around this time) is prohibitive as a yearly cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Freelander 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 My D3 has not been too bad so far!! Disco3 forum suggests a £1k a month slush fund!! About to replace the rear diff, for and independant this could cost £3k my DIY £700 if you find a good price. From what I have heard the D4 diesel V6 is not much better than the D3 one? RRS must have the same issue unless Supercharge model? JLR V8 petrol will not like LPG without an oil dripper as it accelerates the Valve Seat Regression problem. BRC claims that they have never lost a JLR V8 to VSR when fitted with a valve oiler at the time of their LPG fitment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialbikejames Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 My company Disco 4 has done 36,800 miles in 18 months and not had a single issue- pretty impressed with it on and off road. Refinement wise it's nearly on a par with the boss's Autobiography RR. Bad bits- economy with lead feet is 25mpg (no better than the puma 110 it replaced) and servicing is a rip off. As good as it is, I wouldn't own one privately. Potential problems are just too scary to contemplate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Some pretty one sided feedback here! Looks like an Outback or similar is the sensible option - we've had a couple of different Subaru's as main cars for the last 3ish years, and bar servicing touch wood nothing has gone wrong on them. Looks like the same can't be hoped for from a LR!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan110 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 We've got a couple of Disco 4's at work. They're fairly well ragged but also well maintained, bought from new. 150,000 miles on each of them, one is on its 4th engine and the other on its 3rd. Meanwhile we bough a used HiLux which gets the same hard life (Blue light driving, lots of cold starts straight to long 95mph runs etc) and it just plods on and has never let us down. I didn't want to believe cliché but there it is. That said, the D4's are beautiful to drive, faster, lovely smooth engine, well appointed and comfortable, and their performance off-road is as good as you'd expect. If money was no object I wouldn't hesitate but wouldn't spend my own money on one, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I'm not sure about the 4wd versions but our family A4 Estate is squeezing on 170k and is generally trouble free. It's not vast so when it goes I'll look at the A6 Estate instead - with the same engine and box. Ours is a 170 2.0litre diesel with the later 6 speed getrag box; so apart from the weird skew drive to the oil pump, it's nails hard; as is the box. The 4x4 version uses Torsion Diffs (that's on a B7 version) so pretty reliable. We get 62mpg average across the board, so a heavier 4x4 version would still be pretty good. Just avoid the 18" rims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 On a D3/D4 point, we share our offices with some chaps who drive their D4's up and down the motorways all day and night. They do massive mileage but never more than 60mph. They rarely go wrong but are rotting faster than a pear on the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 You know it always makes me laugh when I hear folk slagging off JLR reliability and repair bills. Why? The simple truth of the matter is regardless of what manufacturer you mention, you can bet your house on the fact that they're workshop will be full of warranty work and engines/gearboxes lying all over the place in various stages of "reverse engineering". Just recently in fact I was visiting a friend who runs his own BMW indy workshop. He was changing an alternator on the current 3 series. The alternator was water-cooled and the final bill was running into 4 figures.... A relative of mine works at a main Audi dealership. Visiting him one day revealed engines, gearboxes and other big assemblies lying everywhere. The grass is always greener and all that........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialbikejames Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think as an observation on all modern cars they are fine when bought in the way most are- that's to say via PCP or lease. Sold that way they are either new or used approved through a main dealer and under warranty- therefore the customer's exposure to some of these crippling costs are minimal. JLR servicing is expensive- my C63 is cheaper to service than the Disco 4. I suppose I got my monies worth on the D4- the beaut who filled it with oil topped it up all the way to the filler cap and never thought that it might be too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, need4speed said: You know it always makes me laugh when I hear folk slagging off JLR reliability and repair bills. Why? The simple truth of the matter is regardless of what manufacturer you mention, you can bet your house on the fact that they're workshop will be full of warranty work and engines/gearboxes lying all over the place in various stages of "reverse engineering". Just recently in fact I was visiting a friend who runs his own BMW indy workshop. He was changing an alternator on the current 3 series. The alternator was water-cooled and the final bill was running into 4 figures.... A relative of mine works at a main Audi dealership. Visiting him one day revealed engines, gearboxes and other big assemblies lying everywhere. The grass is always greener and all that........ I'm not sure anyone really did say that it was just JLR. Many modern cars put me off for the same reason. We've just bought a 1 series BMW and that looks relatively simple mechanically, but I'm sure the parts aren't cheap. It has lots of unnecessary electronics on it - they add unnecessary convenience which is nice until they go wrong. My preference these days is to buy something older with a more simple and different character to the modern stuff and make that reliable for daily use (its what i've done with the 110 anyway). I was looking at mid 80s Ford pickups (American imports) today, but they've been vetoed as SWMBO doesn't like the looks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Unless you like a gamble I wouldn't run any of them, or any newish vehicle, out of warranty nowadays. Have you considered a new/ish 4x4 pickup with canopy? Most available are now are very civilised and have the benefit of being able to lug stuff around as and when needed too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 It's one of those questions that goes round and round. I know someone with a ffrr and someone with a d3 both over 10 years old and neither of them have ever had big bills. I know someone with an a6 v6 diesel who has had to have it recovered half a dozen times at least in as many years. The common factor I find that really winds me up is the dealers seem to be beyond rectifying faults regardless of make which tends to turn a little problem into a big problem. What puts me off new cars is the adverts all concentrate on how many ipads you can connect. Surely I can't be the only one who wants to know how the thing drives and wants a pushy button for the lights, one for the heater etc without having to navigate a touchscreen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Lots of comments here - generally from those who have not owned any of those on the list. I have has a 07MY RRS (basically the same as a D3) - has been the most reliable car I have owned - service it myself - there is not much to do and if you know where to buy parts quite cheap to run. Listen to those who actually own the vehicles not those arm chair warriors who dont have one one and don't have a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 ...and also read the experiences of more than one person to gauge -actual facts Agree with @Cynic-al, new cars really aren't cars any more, just an entertainment station that happens to get you somewhere, sometimes when it works right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 27 minutes ago, garrycol said: Lots of comments here - generally from those who have not owned any of those on the list. I have has a 07MY RRS (basically the same as a D3) - has been the most reliable car I have owned - service it myself - there is not much to do and if you know where to buy parts quite cheap to run. Listen to those who actually own the vehicles not those arm chair warriors who dont have one one and don't have a clue. We can still talk with many people and read many things over a long period of time and make up our own minds, though . . . it's called "research" and tends to work quite well if done correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 We have had 2 D3's from virtually new. No big problems with either.But my friend did have big problems with both of his. My RRS is costly to fix, but it is old and worn out. I'm catching up on service work that hasn't been done I suppose. The wife's F2 (touch wood), has been very reliable, just normal service stuff. It's up to 96 or 97k miles now. And an '07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 My wife's Freelander 2 was just about 12 months old (5K miles) when it became disabled by the ABS module becoming 'corrupted' - the treatment by JLR was first class and I cant really complain. My fear was that just re programming the module would only be a temporary fix but it did another 12 months without issue - the warranty bill was sorted by JLR. I asked the dealer for a rough idea what it would have cost me out of warranty - he reckoned about 1K! .....What! to reprogram a module? That car has gone now and no doubt most modern cars are similar but it makes you think keeping older cars when they become more affordable on the road is going to be much harder. There again if we rewind to the first TD5, there was an outcry about it being impossible for private owners to DIY maintain them yet now they are mostly considered old simple technology. I suppose reverse engineering of ecu's and systems will develop and hopefully we will eventually get to a similar place with the current crop of cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 "Vast differences in the upkeep costs have been revealed by the Which? survey, based on a survey of 57,000 owners. It found owners of Land Rover Discovery 3s aged over three years are spending an average of £478 putting the car right, 37 times more than the driver of a Kia Picanto, whose bill is a more modest £13." All cars will have some horror stories and yes all cars will have instances where cars are trouble free for extended periods of time too. On average Land Rovers are more expensive and prospective owners should budget for that. If you get warranty quotes that will indicate the expected cost on average to the warranty company and give you an idea what you can expect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Before you decide to do anything do please check warranty terms - and the tiny print - on policies on offer. You need to be sure that in the event of a claim you are actually going to get what you believe you are getting, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Being relatively poor I don't buy cars with warrantee. What I do though is drop into the local garage that I trust and talk to the manager, mechanics and owner - 130 experience years of fixing all types of cars They specialise in 4x4's, so do a lot of work on modern LR's - they also do a lot of specialist work on VAG. I then mix this with my own experience of working on vehicles and prepping vehicles. I have a special notebook kept over the last 15 years that lists problems encountered with vehicles that may be used for overland builds; and how to reduce the chances of those problems. It's a live document. In the back is a similar list for the various cars we have owned as a family, or that friends have owned... It's not brain surgery, it's just simple observations and fixes. Most decent garages will have a member of staff who does the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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