lift - 4-post/2-post/scissor?

[Troll Hunter]

On 1/2/2023 at 6:09 AM, Snagger said:

He’s a Manc - he’ll go in a can and call it Bodingtons…😜

Yes, but he'll share it with his friends!

[twodoorgaz]

Ha ha - I'm not actually local to Manchester. Merely a stray who ended up living here.

On planning, the plot thickens.

 

We spoke to an architect and planning consultant yesterday to go through a number of plans for the new property (incorporating the workshop but there's a load of other things). He is familiar with this particular borough's planning regs and he hadn't heard of a 30m2 max either. Obviously I'm fully aware that there is a 30m2 threshold for building regs, but in the chat above we were talking about a 30m2 max for permitted development too.

 

After reading the post above from Steve B, I had searched for different terms and quickly found a link to an overview of PD on the Build It magazine website. That was where I saw the confirmation of the 30m2 maximum rule (https://www.self-build.co.uk/permitted-development-basics/ scroll down to "Maximum coverage of garages and outbuildings 30 sq m if garden covers more than 100 sq m or 20 sq m if the garden is less than 100 sq m". However, while this article references new rules... I hadn't read it properly as it was published in 2018.

 

But other than Steve B's comment and that Build It reference I can find no other mention of a square meterage limit anywhere. Reading the government guidance it says that extensions (under PD) and outbuildings must not exceed 50% of the curtilage of the original house. I'm miles away from that, we cold build a low barn and be OK, in theory. However given the costs involved I am going to apply for a Certificate of Lawful Development to get confirmation in advance.

I haven't discounted a second hand lift, but they aren't too expensive new and given the amount I'll be spending on the garage I might as well order new - that way the slab can be made to a known suppliers specs.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by twodoorgaz

[steve b]

If you buy a new lift make sure it's over spec'd for max lift KG and a good brand recommended by local  larger garages - like everything  lifts are built down to a price point and lifespan and once worn out are often either not viable to refurb. or major overhaul parts are just not available. 

Leadscrew type lift systems come with their own long term use issues- if there is a lot of airborne dust/dirt from grinding/disc cutting/de-rusting this will find it's way onto the leadscrew/drive nut and with the grease turns into grinding paste....

My 4 post is a 1978 hydraulic with cables and pulleys and all parts are available still - garage equipment Direct being one established parts supplier and a good source of advice too .

The local planning regulations quirks are a bit of a minefield everywhere I suspect - this area has conflicting statements within PD for outbuildings at every turn. 

Steve

[FridgeFreezer]

Just came across this incident which highlights the importance of the concrete base for 2-posters especially:

 

Aftermath:

[steve b]

Holy skim coat Batman... That looks like a screed over not-crete

Very lucky no-one got hurt

Steve

[David Sparkes]

Looking at the video and comments on Reddit, there was some slight criticism of putting a vehicle on a 2 post lift when the vehicle had a heavy snow plough unbalancing it. It seems to me this was the root cause of the incident.

Note the video appears to come from an internal security camera, so that initially there seems to be no action. By default the sound on the video playback was muted, solved by a click on the appropriate button.

Regards.

[Nonimouse]

Found an annoying thing with a two poster. Welding up the outer face of the sills on a D1. You can't open the blessed door!

[Bowie69]

Yes... I'm much more in favour of a 4 poster...

[L19MUD]

Both are great for the right jobs. I do prefer the 4 poster with a landy though as most jobs the access is decent due to the layout

[ThreePointFive]

Had my 90 up on a 2 poster just before Christmas and they are awkward. The chassis sweep upwards just after the rear radius arms gives little flat area and it would be easy to have it slip.  I did not like being under it.

[landroversforever]

10 hours ago, David Sparkes said:

Looking at the video and comments on Reddit, there was some slight criticism of putting a vehicle on a 2 post lift when the vehicle had a heavy snow plough unbalancing it. It seems to me this was the root cause of the incident.

For the concrete to fail like that I reckon it was the root cause. Just sped up by the plough. 

[elbekko]

13 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

Found an annoying thing with a two poster. Welding up the outer face of the sills on a D1. You can't open the blessed door!

Indeed, I welded up an RRC on a 2-poster a while back, working around the arms was a constant pain when doing the sills. Opening the door isn't an issue if you just take it off.

Then again, I welded up my old RRC on the 4-poster, and that gave excellent access to everything but the underside. Getting the underside welded up was literally painful, as you needed to basically be on the ground getting covered in weld spatter.

[Ed Poore]

19 hours ago, David Sparkes said:

Looking at the video and comments on Reddit, there was some slight criticism of putting a vehicle on a 2 post lift when the vehicle had a heavy snow plough unbalancing it. It seems to me this was the root cause of the incident.

I would tend to agree with @landroversforever that it's the concrete at fault not the lift. The vehicle is stationary up there for quite a while before toppling over. If it was unbalanced I'd expect it to have gone straight away or whilst lifting.

The fact that the concrete has been torn out implies to me that the vehicle was not unbalanced because it stayed on the lift quite happily until the foundations gave way underneath it.

Personally I'd have expected the hold down bolts to go at least as deep as a mesh of rebar so that any cantilever like load then has to pull out the mesh which spreads it out over a far greater area. Even better would be a plate under the mesh embedded in the concrete with the bolts poking through the mesh - that way you have to pull the plate through the mesh.

[Blanco]

5 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

Even better would be a plate under the mesh embedded in the concrete with the bolts poking through the mesh - that way you have to pull the plate through the mesh.

Build from scratch gives you that option, and its a good one, but obviously you need to know which lift first to space the bolts. Perhaps wrap the threads in sacking or something to keep them clean, a couple of wraps will give them a little sideways tolerance as well, amazing how something gets a knock when the concrete is flying.

I am quite pleased with my 5t 2 post lift, the doors open a decent amount because it is 3.4m between the posts (much bigger than a Tesco car park space!) the only niggle I have found is that you can't park 2 range rovers one up one down because of the arms getting in the way. I would now add a 4 post next to it if a 2nd hand one comes along but I couldn't find anything decent in the way of 2 post at the time. I do think 2 post is more versatile if you only have one.

[Ed Poore]

1 minute ago, Blanco said:

I do think 2 post is more versatile if you only have one.

They may be more versatile but based off all the work I've done on vehicles I'd still take a 4 poster for the convenience of driving on, doing the work and driving off without the faff of having to align everything and get out to move arms etc. With wheels free and two jacking beams you almost get the versatility of a two poster and you have two nice big shelves. 

Now just need the scaffolding to move from the front of the house so I can get a concrete lorry in to pour the slab for the four poster.

[Bowie69]

11 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

you have two nice big shelves

This cannot be overestimated!

And something to stand/climb on if you need to get in the car.

[twodoorgaz]

Thanks everyone.

 

good food for thought. The building drawings are being finalised now and then off lift-shopping.