No more Land Rover…?

[smallfry]

8 hours ago, Snagger said:

There were some ominous changes under BMW’s stewardship, but as soon as TATA took over, they announced the cessation of parts supply for vehicles over the EU regulated 10 years age.  The rhetoric started becoming more negative towards their traditional utility customer base, they turned their backs hard on their loyal enthusiast base but continued to claim credit for the vehicle longevity that was entirely due to those enthusiasts.  They stopped listening to feedback and chased after the gauchest customers.  They spurned their rugged and dependably working vehicle heritage and became a luxury product make, deliberately distancing themselves from the working man, and insulting them in the process - the bulk of us were deemed no longer good enough to be their customers.  They became a lifestyle brand instead of a revered car manufacturer.  They ceased to be Land Rover.

That's a bit strong ! Absolutely right though.

[Gazzar]

If you showed up at a main dealer with a tatty working vehicle, you'd soon agree that snagger was being restrained.

And Mr McGovern was very clear that appearances mattered as much or more than engineering. I paraphrase but I remember him saying that big rims are a core part of the brand.

[smallfry]

10 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

If you showed up at a main dealer with a tatty working vehicle, you'd soon agree that snagger was being restrained.

 

This is not just confined to JLR. Some years ago when the Audi R8 came out, my ex boss pre ordered one. He got a call to say that it had arrived at the dealer, and as we were in the area that day, we went to have a look. We arrived in the not too tatty van, but looking somewhat scruffy, and went into the showroom. The looks of scorn and hostility were not at all hidden, and we were completely ignored for quite a long time, until my boss went to the coffee machine. Snotty receptionist said to him that it was for customers .........

When he revealed why we were there, it was suddenly like a celebrity had arrived, with much cringing and fawning, hand wringing, and offered chairs etc.

Its pathetic.

[Snagger]

13 hours ago, Gazzar said:

So, in essence, they're doing a Rover. Chasing luxury markets at the expense of utility. Then be amazed when fickle wealthy customers go elsewhere......

It’s worse than that.  Land Rover was developed to save Rover at a time of severe financial stress and materials rationing by exporting an extremely simple yet versatile working machine.  Now the descendant of that company makes vastly overly-complex vehicles that depend heavily on a very buoyant economy and a lot of complex imported parts, not least electronics.  It is the very antithesis of what it started as.  And it is paying the price - the shortage of chips, the global, especially European (including UK) financial instability, their heavy vehicles and trumped up environmental issues… the list goes on, but had they stuck to the original ethos and worked on improving quality, not branding, then they would almost certainly be in a much better position.

[Gazzar]

I wholeheartedly agree. But no one listens to me. 

 

Probably a good thing.

[Snagger]

24 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

If you showed up at a main dealer with a tatty working vehicle, you'd soon agree that snagger was being restrained.

And Mr McGovern was very clear that appearances mattered as much or more than engineering. I paraphrase but I remember him saying that big rims are a core part of the brand.

When we went to buy Helena her 90 through the Approved scheme, the McGovern disciple salesman persisted in telling us we were “wrong”, that we’d hate a Defender and how we really ought to have an Ewok.  I said we weren’t interest in those but loved Defenders, and that I’d looked in the through the window and clearly wouldn’t fit the seats.  He insisted I try it (even though it wasn’t going to be my car), and sure enough, the side bolsters pressed against the back of my ribs, the seat at least a foot too narrow.  Awful thing.  I did that to shut him up, but no, he continued to deride the Defender and say what an awful vehicle it was, how it’d be canned imminently (this was 2011) and continued to indirectly insult our intelligence and instruct us on what we should like.  That is the modern company through and through.

[Gazzar]

Shame they didn't sell the brand to ineos.

 

[Happyoldgit]

I understand what is being said but there are ways and means of cutting through snotty sales staff who's allegiance to one brand is fickle to non existent. Most I have encountered dance from dealership to dealership, BMW one / month year, Volvo the next. Hanging around a showroom showing obvious interest in this or that is time consuming, a direct approach is better. Ignore the receptionist but approach a salesperson, make eye contact, introduce yourself, offer to shake hands or whatever the post pandemic norm is, tell them exactly what you are considering, make it clear you have considered funding, know what you are talking about and cut short any attempts to sidetrack. 

It works.

[miketomcat]

I've had similar issue to others and I only ever used the parts department. 🤣 On the bright side there's a man in Sheffield who sells exactly the vehicle most of us want, is a genuine nice guy, not pushy in any way and will build you exactly what you ask for. His name is David Foers.....

 

If I ever have the money to buy new that's where I would be going. Oh and they British through and through.

Mike

[reb78]

2 hours ago, Gazzar said:

If you showed up at a main dealer with a tatty working vehicle, you'd soon agree that snagger was being restrained.

And Mr McGovern was very clear that appearances mattered as much or more than engineering. I paraphrase but I remember him saying that big rims are a core part of the brand.

I did. Went to look at a new (old style) defender and drove there in my 200tdi 110. I got stuck in the darkest corner of the dealership and when they found out we werent 'evoquing' (as they put it) we got assigned an inexperienced sales apprentice who didnt know anything. The 2.4 was no nicer than my 110 after a test drive so we left unimpressed with the entire experience. 

[reb78]

2 hours ago, Snagger said:

When we went to buy Helena her 90 through the Approved scheme, the McGovern disciple salesman persisted in telling us we were “wrong”, that we’d hate a Defender and how we really ought to have an Ewok.  I said we weren’t interest in those but loved Defenders, and that I’d looked in the through the window and clearly wouldn’t fit the seats.  He insisted I try it (even though it wasn’t going to be my car), and sure enough, the side bolsters pressed against the back of my ribs, the seat at least a foot too narrow.  Awful thing.  I did that to shut him up, but no, he continued to deride the Defender and say what an awful vehicle it was, how it’d be canned imminently (this was 2011) and continued to indirectly insult our intelligence and instruct us on what we should like.  That is the modern company through and through.

I didnt read this before I replied. Its like we went to the same dealership!

[ThreePointFive]

I think this issue is common across all dealerships. Many years ago I made the mistake of walking into a Mercedes dealership after phoning ahead about a car. The difference between first setting foot in the place to when they realised I was the "serious" buyer who had phoned was hilarious, the only reason I could think of was being aged under 30 at the time. I had come from work so was dressed appropriately..

I had already decided at that point I wouldn't be buying anything, but I can be extremely petty and had time to waste. I took an hour to look around a car and take it for a test drive, during which the saleswoman was all "premium, high-end, prestige" this and "luxury, affluent demographic, upper middle class design language" that. I got bored, informed them their plastics were no better than that of a VAG product and the engine would be better at home in some kind of agricultural vehicle and left. I was then treated like actual royalty at a Jaguar dealer.

It just shows how inconsistent your experience can be from one dealership to the next, never mind across brands.

1 hour ago, Happyoldgit said:

snotty sales staff who's allegiance to one brand is fickle to non existent. Most I have encountered dance from dealership to dealership, BMW one / month year, Volvo the next.

This could not be more true, and they will look you in the eye and tell you why their current products are superior, having given the exact same line in the last place. Even after being greeted by name after they recognise you and know you've already had "the talk". It's barking.

The one thing we can be certain of is that this JLR rebranding won't fix the problem, it's industry-wide.

[Stellaghost]

We have bought 3 new cars in total over several years and have always had a good experience at the dealers we purchased the cars from, however the best experience we had was buying our second hand Ford Ranger from Stafford Landrover, we were treated like royalty, cups of tea etc, the sales guy even gave us a goody bag with bottles of water and snacks in for the drive home and we were not even buying one of their products

I would quite happily travel the 5 hrs back to Stafford Landrover to buy from them again if they had a vehicle i wanted

regards Stephen

[Snagger]

21 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

I understand what is being said but there are ways and means of cutting through snotty sales staff who's allegiance to one brand is fickle to non existent. Most I have encountered dance from dealership to dealership, BMW one / month year, Volvo the next. Hanging around a showroom showing obvious interest in this or that is time consuming, a direct approach is better. Ignore the receptionist but approach a salesperson, make eye contact, introduce yourself, offer to shake hands or whatever the post pandemic norm is, tell them exactly what you are considering, make it clear you have considered funding, know what you are talking about and cut short any attempts to sidetrack. 

It works.

Exactly as I did, but it didn’t work and we went to another dealer because that site wasn’t interested in ordering a Defender for us.  The next franchised dealer then took a month to put the vehicle through its PDI, but missed the broken rear window element and brake light and the chafed wiring that sounded the horn whenever the lights were on, requiring the vehicle to be diverted on its way home to the Leicester franchised dealer for repair and then a whole load of trouble between franchised dealers who couldn’t seem to cooperate despite the car being on the “Approved” warranty scheme and taking a further month to rectify before we could take it home.  I could detail further stories of LR franchise dealer incompetence, but no need (in fairness, they were still not quite as bad as Volvo).

[Snagger]

20 hours ago, reb78 said:

I didnt read this before I replied. Its like we went to the same dealership!

Bedford?  The one at Newport Pagnell was terrible too.  I don’t think any of them were any good.

[reb78]

47 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Bedford?  The one at Newport Pagnell was terrible too.  I don’t think any of them were any good.

Hatfield. So not far away at all. Treated us like idiots. Very unpleasant experience really. 

[Snagger]

3 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Hatfield. So not far away at all. Treated us like idiots. Very unpleasant experience really. 

I think they all have special training for it as part of their franchise contract.  They have to demonstrate the same hubris and narcissism as senior company figures like McGovern.  All part of their desired new and exclusive brand image, I presume…

[elbekko]

22 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

I think this issue is common across all dealerships. Many years ago I made the mistake of walking into a Mercedes dealership after phoning ahead about a car. The difference between first setting foot in the place to when they realised I was the "serious" buyer who had phoned was hilarious, the only reason I could think of was being aged under 30 at the time. I had come from work so was dressed appropriately..

It's funny. I've had similar experiences here and there, but mainly have been well-received. My local Mercedes dealership (which is a big reason I'm on my third Mercedes), has always been very good to me. My first experience with them was when I was picking out a second-hand C-class. My budget only allowed a German import, not one from their lot. But I wanted to be sure the seats wouldn't murder my back, so I phoned them up asking if they had one on their lot that I could sit in. No problem, come by. Of course when there we had a quick chat, and they realised they didn't have anything in my budget, but still let me sit in one of their cars. I then got that car from Germany, and convinced my boss to let me go that dealership for the maintenance.

A few years later I was going freelance, and looking at a new or recent second-hand car. Walked in, salesman still vaguely remembered me. Was happy to show me around their cars, and let me test drive a few. Had almost settled on the C-class coupé, when I saw the E-class coupé in the flesh. I went back straight from the Brussels auto show, made some terrible financial decisions, and ordered one before it was even officially presented. All of this while in my 20s, looking rather scruffy.

This salesman is now the sales manager at that dealership, and has recently sold me a brand new GLE with a nice discount, while buying back the E coupé at a bit over market value. I can walk into this dealership and everyone knows me by name. I don't think I'll buy another new Mercedes, but that has more to do with the cars than the dealership.

On the other hand, I was also looking at Jags and BMWs while going freelance. None of them were nearly as helpful or friendly. Most of them took a bit of convincing I was actually a serious buyer. If that E coupé hadn't been so damn pretty, maybe I would've had an XE or XF... but probably not, because the dealership sucked.

[Retroanaconda]

This thread has progressed in a very predictable manner 

The branding decision is a non-issue, the cars will still be land rovers and they will still have the green/black oval on the back. The only difference I can see is that the dealerships will use the model names abode the door - which makes a lot of sense when you consider that very few people say ‘I drive a Land Rover Range Rover’, or ‘a Land Rover Discovery’ - the models are brands in themselves these days.

Usual storm in a teacup reaction.

[Peaklander]

1 hour ago, Retroanaconda said:

very few people say ‘I drive a Land Rover Range Rover’, or ‘a Land Rover Discovery’

We were saying that just the other day. Sister-in-law has bought a Range Rover Evoque and she would never refer to it as a Land Rover 😀 That's far removed from her image.

[Snagger]

5 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

This thread has progressed in a very predictable manner 

The branding decision is a non-issue, the cars will still be land rovers and they will still have the green/black oval on the back. The only difference I can see is that the dealerships will use the model names abode the door - which makes a lot of sense when you consider that very few people say ‘I drive a Land Rover Range Rover’, or ‘a Land Rover Discovery’ - the models are brands in themselves these days.

Usual storm in a teacup reaction.

Like nobody says they drive a Mercedes, Maserati Quatroporto E-Class or a Ford Mondeo, or in my case Volvo XC90 - they all use just the model name.  That doesn’t mean the manufacturer drops the name to distance themselves from their working man heritage.  Make no mistake; this is entirely about brand snobbery.

[Gazzar]

I drive a Landrover.

 

Made by British Leyland, but I don't emphasise that....

[Snagger]

1 minute ago, Gazzar said:

I drive a Landrover.

 

Made by British Leyland, but I don't emphasise that....

Nobody would believe you - they don’t expect anything BL to still be operable!  If you told them you sweep up the bits of a LR made by BL, then that would have plenty of credibility! 😉

[Gazzar]

I do that too!

[monkie]

7 hours ago, Gazzar said:

Made by British Leyland, but I don't emphasise that....

Isn't the British Leyland logo known as "the a-hole of doom"? I'm sure I've picked that up from somewhere on here a few years back. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by monkie