No more Land Rover…?

[western]

1 hour ago, landroversforever said:

Not sure if you can see this without having an account, but this is from The Intercooler:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrQlIenIBkR/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
 

seems like the name isn’t actually dying from their quote  

Got to have a Instagram account to read that above link.

[Happyoldgit]

4 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

I've felt that way about cars for a while now. It seems impossible to buy and own your vehicle from new, the best most of us can do is get something 5+ years old without the bank owning it for you.

I know a lot of people are quite happy living this way if it means they can drive a symbol of how well they're doing. The irony that they can't actually afford it seems lost though.

I look forward to the traditional Jaguar depreciation making any future cars infinitely affordable after only a few weeks.

That's a pretty broad brush. There are still enough people willing to buy new, by whatever means and who are we to judge, and not all buy just to keep up with the neighbours. Without those who purchase new there will be no vehicles for those further down the used chain to buy and perhaps spend their time fettling / improving.

 

[Happyoldgit]

6 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

After 75 years of unreliability and customer product testing, it's sad, but about as expected as a thing we all know about. JLR is a low volume manufacturer who's intrinsic component companies have survived on it's past for longer than I've been around.

I'm quite please that my own favourite vehicles and my own past will no longer be associated with the JLR brand

Very true and after decades of owning, fettling and faffing with more Land Rover's than I care to remember your last line probably holds true for me too.

Still, if Ineos gets its act together and manages to get the the Grenadier out to customers in some kind of numbers the trickle down in decades to come will enable some to tinker with what will then be venerable vehicles. Perhaps these will still capable of exploring parts of the world that have been explored by thousands of others before.

[smallfry]

1 hour ago, Happyoldgit said:

That's a pretty broad brush. There are still enough people willing to buy new, by whatever means and who are we to judge, and not all buy just to keep up with the neighbours. Without those who purchase new there will be no vehicles for those further down the used chain to buy and perhaps spend their time fettling / improving.

 

This is true of course, and most cars are not in that sort of price bracket. Those who can afford this sort of money will not be overly concerned about the price, but I do wonder how many cars are now bought in the conventional way. Seems to be that the vast majority are leased, which will be the only way most can afford to do it.

[RobAnzac]

8 hours ago, western said:

Got to have a Instagram account to read that above link.

 

This might be where that leads to

https://www.the-intercooler.com/library/blog/the-future-of-jaguar-and-land-rover/

It is a blog post by Dan Prosser at the Intercooler that should be accessible without a login

[ThreePointFive]

12 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

That's a pretty broad brush. There are still enough people willing to buy new, by whatever means and who are we to judge, and not all buy just to keep up with the neighbours. Without those who purchase new there will be no vehicles for those further down the used chain to buy and perhaps spend their time fettling / improving.

 

That's not really what I'm saying but having just re-read my post, I understand why you think that. I meant that most new cars are now out of reach for most people without finance, which is sort of scandalous for something which is a basic essential of modern life.

I'm categorically not saying there's anything wrong with people who responsibly finance such a huge purchase. Selling cars at 100k+ doesn't help, though.

My judgement is on the kind of gimps who try to lord it over others with their (bank's) new car.

 

[Happyoldgit]

4 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said:

That's not really what I'm saying though. Just that most new cars are now out of reach for most people without finance. I'm categorically not saying there's anything wrong with that. Selling cars at 100k+ doesn't help, though.

My judgement is on the kind of gimps who try to lord it over others with their (bank's) new car.

 

Life really is too short to worry about the motivations behind the buying habits of others. If having a shiny new reg vehicle regularly on the drive makes them happy then so be it. Their means of funding same is irrelevant.

Those "gimps" provide the hand me downs for non gimp types. 

[Daan]

To be fair, I doubt any land rover is bought by individuals these days. They are generally company cars, so for business use. So either bought on finance by the company or leased.

[Happyoldgit]

11 minutes ago, Daan said:

To be fair, I doubt any land rover is bought by individuals these days. They are generally company cars, so for business use. So either bought on finance by the company or leased.

I think this is very true.

[landroversforever]

11 minutes ago, Daan said:

To be fair, I doubt any land rover is bought by individuals these days. They are generally company cars, so for business use. So either bought on finance by the company or leased.

I'd argue against that to be honest. The number of yummy mummy types in abingdon dropping Frenella and Theodore at their private schools in Abingdon show it. And not the sort that would be bought by a company. 

[landroversforever]

5 hours ago, RobAnzac said:

 

This might be where that leads to

https://www.the-intercooler.com/library/blog/the-future-of-jaguar-and-land-rover/

It is a blog post by Dan Prosser at the Intercooler that should be accessible without a login

Thats the one. I was on my phone so I'd not got the website to hand. 

[Jamie_grieve]

Should heritage be a part of vehicle selection process anyway?
Surely with the advances in artificial intelligence nowadays we should get better at defining our requirements and have faith in our favourite algorithms selection of vehicle choice for us instead of us relying on lineage as though we were buying a racehorse?

Does it really matter if JLR drops the Land Rover name which lets be honest, outside of the UK is not regarded in particularly high esteem and within the UK, will have almost no relevance to anyone’s purchase decision making process?

Does national pride in a vehicle manufacturer add value in any way to it?

As JLR distances itself from its Land Rover heritage, which will become increasingly irrelevant as time moves on to it as a brand, does it not make sense for it to base it’s heritage on JLR achievements and prowess which I’ll admit, I don’t know what they are? I think calling the new Defender a 120 as part of the brand or pillar building would be a good way of having it making a new identity of its own instead of clouding it with the crude and irrelevant devices from the last millennium. 

[Gazzar]

Exactly.

 

I think.

 

Do you mean that JLR couldn't live up to the heritage?

[Snagger]

I’m glad to see that the company has realised that it’s products are not real Land Rovers, and that they have cleaved their toxicity from the heritage of the company and the classic vehicles.

[BogMonster]

I read "Land Rover finally admits that none of the cars it makes nowadays are Land Rovers".

[FridgeFreezer]

This seems to sum it up reasonably well;

https://www.theautopian.com/the-british-press-is-freaking-out-over-jaguars-decision-to-sort-of-downplay-the-land-rover-brand/

 

[landroversforever]

Saw another instagram post which I now can't find post-refresh musing the possibility of it relating to something around the average fleet emissions. So by making the JLR company more of a single entity and having Jag all electric, it would help enable them to still sell the other v8s etc with higher emissions. 

[Nonimouse]

I shall never buy a new vehicle again. Although, in fact I haven't bought a new vehicle since 1989 and that was a Mk2 Golf GTI 8 Valve. The huge loss on every new purchase is ludicrous.

What I shall be doing is leasing. When the vitara hits 100k (in 60k/three years) I'll be looking at a lease hybrid. Probably a Toyota or a Honda. Then every three years after that. My mileage rate is excellent and will more than cover fuel, lease and insurance. 

Obviously I will still have the Disco, I may pick up an MPI because they are huge fun, but obviously it will need a turbo. I may pick up a Dutton for reliability trialling, or an Austin 7.  Petrol and Diesel won't be phased out in 2030, nor will the cost go through the roof. The world is ready for that, just as it's not quite ready for domestic hydrogen or electric.  And I'm going to by an electric bike.

[L19MUD]

4 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Saw another instagram post which I now can't find post-refresh musing the possibility of it relating to something around the average fleet emissions. So by making the JLR company more of a single entity and having Jag all electric, it would help enable them to still sell the other v8s etc with higher emissions. 

I think this could well be correct. Was disappointed they dropped the v8 diesel on the new RR though

Diesel still feels right in a Range Rover.

[landroversforever]

47 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

I think this could well be correct. Was disappointed they dropped the v8 diesel on the new RR though

Diesel still feels right in a Range Rover.

I agree, big diesel waftability 

[L19MUD]

8 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

I agree, big diesel waftability 

There is literally only one thing that stops me having a brand new Range Rover, I'm not rich enough!

I couldn't care less what people think of what I drive or try to impress anyone. I just know what I like

 

Equally just as happy driving the rusty Transit tipper or a new RR depending on how I feel

[monkie]

23 hours ago, Snagger said:

I’m glad to see that the company has realised that it’s products are not real Land Rovers, and that they have cleaved their toxicity from the heritage of the company and the classic vehicles.

I agree with this statement.

 The news of the land rover name being dropped surely doesn't come as a surprise to enthusiasts does it? In my view the land rover name dissappeared around 1990 (or whenever it was) with the introduction of the Discovery and the Defender name. That isn't to say I don't like defenders and discoveries. 

[Snagger]

There were some ominous changes under BMW’s stewardship, but as soon as TATA took over, they announced the cessation of parts supply for vehicles over the EU regulated 10 years age.  The rhetoric started becoming more negative towards their traditional utility customer base, they turned their backs hard on their loyal enthusiast base but continued to claim credit for the vehicle longevity that was entirely due to those enthusiasts.  They stopped listening to feedback and chased after the gauchest customers.  They spurned their rugged and dependably working vehicle heritage and became a luxury product make, deliberately distancing themselves from the working man, and insulting them in the process - the bulk of us were deemed no longer good enough to be their customers.  They became a lifestyle brand instead of a revered car manufacturer.  They ceased to be Land Rover.

[steve b]

59 minutes ago, Snagger said:

There were some ominous changes under BMW’s stewardship, but as soon as TATA took over, they announced the cessation of parts supply for vehicles over the EU regulated 10 years age.  The rhetoric started becoming more negative towards their traditional utility customer base, they turned their backs hard on their loyal enthusiast base but continued to claim credit for the vehicle longevity that was entirely due to those enthusiasts.  They stopped listening to feedback and chased after the gauchest customers.  They spurned their rugged and dependably working vehicle heritage and became a luxury product make, deliberately distancing themselves from the working man, and insulting them in the process - the bulk of us were deemed no longer good enough to be their customers.  They became a lifestyle brand instead of a revered car manufacturer.  They ceased to be Land Rover.

...get off the fence and say what you mean....

 

 

I'm sure it's just coincidence that this somewhat meaningless press feed from JLR happened in the same week Ineos start releasing Grenadier's into the wild.

I wonder what the new JLR name will be without Land Rover or much in the way of Jaaag content either? 

Steve 

[Gazzar]

So, in essence, they're doing a Rover. Chasing luxury markets at the expense of utility. Then be amazed when fickle wealthy customers go elsewhere......