OT - "Vintage" Tractor Purchasing

[ThreePointFive]

MODS, delete this if it's too OT, it is at least about a proper all-terrain vehicle...

Bit of a silly thing to ask, but I'm thinking of buying a (very) old tractor as something of a garden ornament and I know a few on here are owners/enthusiasts. I began looking and it seems that the price difference between a non-functioning one to a reasonable runner is really not that big so might as well have something that drives.

This whole plan is contingent on having a piece of land big enough to put it on and not dominate the space. We're viewing properties but haven't even found one we like yet so it's likely to come to nothing anyway, but if we do own a paddock/field, I'll want a way of mowing it - something an old tractor can do- but assume the whole point is that there is no point, any usefulness is secondary.

So I wanted to ask what are the basic do's and don'ts of the vintage tractor world, am I signing up for a world of pain in maintenance, hidden costs even just to have it sit dormant 95% of the time, and I assume I'll need to buy obscure tools/spanners in Olde English Badgers or whatever unit of measurement they used in the dark ages?

As a complete beginning trawl of eBay, this is the sort of thing I envisioned. No idea if these are any good or priced appropriately, as I say, this is all very early days and a complete whim.

This 1948 Ferguson TEA20 T20 Tractor

This Ferguson TE20 petrol vintage tractor

If anyone is thinking that wanting a tractor for the sake of having one is stupid, good job, well observed.

[Jon W]

I have briefly looked into this but not fully in depth. As I will be purchasing a tractor for our paddock when funds allow. Thing I have picked up or learnt for implements etc is that you might want one with 'live drive' i think it is called, basically means to can engage and disengage the PTO, the T20's do not have this so the PTO constantly spins, so you have to turn tractor off or implements continue turning,  so if you want to sort anything out without loosing a limb etc. The newer Fergy 35 had this function

 

 

[Gazzar]

New option?

[L19MUD]

I know quite a bit about this and happy to have a chat through if it helps. You really do want a live drive (or dual clutch) tractor otherwise when you press the clutch your mower stops turning which is very annoying. A dual clutch tractor has a 2 stage clutch with gear selection at the top of travel and PTO disengagement at the bottom. I know a lot of people do use the T20's but in all honesty they are a bit long in the tooth and under powered for running a big enough topper. A 35x or 135 will run a 6 foot topper as long as the grass is not too long which means you only drive over the bit you are cutting once.

MF35s come in 4 cylinder and 3 cylinder Perkins flavour. The 4 cylinder need a bonfire under them to start from cold. The 3 cylinder start in all temperatures at the flick of the key with no heat - one of my favourite ever engines in anything. This engine carried to the 35x and the 135 which is really just a 35x with the newer 100 series tinwork.

 

We have two 135's at my parents and they have been practically faultless over the past 20 years. Battery, tyres, PTO seal on one, radiator on the other. Parts are cheap and plentiful too

I am in the process of buying a house so have been keeping an eye out for a tractor for me, bought this slightly bigger (prob a bit heavy but I wanted it!) MF165 Multipower at the weekend from a deceased estate auction which has been local to me all its life and is all original

 

A comparison picture with one of the 135s

 

 

It was a decent load for the 90 and Bateson

[L19MUD]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394851095473?hash=item5beef593b1:g:ChUAAOSwTT5k8ahV&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4ISIjxx7pYEtnWsIF%2BlYx2awHl%2F7Ro1tC5xKAg8aHEci8MeV7UA%2FNQECyAoBgD%2FLGoF91EUTH%2FZHKpYpkcYcDnKfrEJgVgRxvx4WJrNXRkloLmve3DBf3%2BEYLNhij6SEGjReaBM2JUr8yRYETwHzA23vmdmw2PabqEQXkF63bTJDf2sBr%2BBTm4j0LCvJK2nBEZWYh%2FD2alz7ZZ93uh1b5LO7IUpZAgIvPsam088BY588Lf8m8Wy9tNG2PNY7ZHPickdFiFIkc%2FFKXuxWPPZQE%2B0ZFHMOiDPw3dFV0yGqRVOS|tkp%3ABk9SR7iI1dreYg

 

A 135 is a bit more money but well worth the extra in my opinion. In terms of needing new tools - assuming you have AF sockets and spanners you are all set. They are more basic to repair than a TDi Defender

[muddy]

Very basic beasts, as said above you really want live drive. The terrain, height restrictions and jobs you would like to do will help to narrow down your choice.

Massey 135, Fordson dexta, David brown 990 ( abit more modern and sometimes DB hydraulics can be finicky but they are a good tractor), nuffields etc etc. Buy a copy of classic tractor and have a browse.

The big money items are tyres, rims and tinwork everything else is pretty cheap. Agriline is the tractor version of britpart but its pretty much all useable and for something that only does 15-20mph and sees infrequent use is fine.

 will be selling my super dexta in a few months when I get the new engine rebuilt this will be around the 3-4k mark I think if that helps you with pricing.

[Hollywood500]

I’m just about to list my 1949 TED20 for sale - bought back in feb with the intention of a light resto and then a summer of shows but I just haven’t got round to doing anything with it other than sorting it out mechanically when I first got it. As others have said they are very basic and if you want to do any proper work you want something like a 135 really. If you just want the ‘original’ tractor as a toy and ornament then you can’t beat a grey fergie!

Only pic I’ve got of mine is when I first picked it up looking a bit sad

[Anderzander]

This is torture - I can’t tell you how much I’d like to buy a tractor 😊

I have land that needs cutting and baling, and I love old tractors, but the land is not with the house - so I’ve nowhere to put a tractor and implements, and don’t really want to just leave them out in the open. 

So at the moment a contractor is cutting it in exchange for the bales. 

[Anderzander]

Oh yes - for an ornament/toy I don’t think you can beat a Grey Fergie or an MF35.

For working the MF135 is an absolute classic. My farmer friends call it things like ‘the hardest tractor ever made’ 😊

There was an MF 35 model that had a dual clutch too - think it was called the MF35X

[Stellaghost]

16 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

This is torture - I can’t tell you how much I’d like to buy a tractor 😊

I have land that needs cutting and baling, and I love old tractors, but the land is not with the house - so I’ve nowhere to put a tractor and implements, and don’t really want to just leave them out in the open. 

So at the moment a contractor is cutting it in exchange for the bales. 

There is a solution.....

Power take off and some implements and use your landrover for what it was originally designed for years ago...........

It would make for a dammed good thread..........lol

Regards Stephen

[Anderzander]

I have pondered that - but the implements aren’t there to work on a normal tow ball with a pto … 

I know you’d just scratch build a three point linkage !  That’s way beyond me though 😍

there are tow behind flail mowers (made for quads) and even mini forage/balers - but they aren’t cheap …. 

[L19MUD]

2 hours ago, Anderzander said:

There was an MF 35 model that had a dual clutch too - think it was called the MF35X

The 135 is just a 35x in the later 100 series tinwork

[L19MUD]

Whilst we are on this topic has anyone got any experience of using a flail mower around the 6ft size for cutting paddocks? I have only ever used a topper which does the job but leaves the grass in a line if it is left too long between cuts

 

I am thinking a flail with a rear roller will mulch it and spread it giving a better finish?

[muddy]

Yes that's correct, you can get different flails to change between cutting and mulching and also add or remove flails to alter the chop length on some. Bear in mind that many flails need to run at 1000 shaft and also due to their ability to cut better over a traditional rotary topper they often get used on rough terrain and the rotor can suffer damage and vibrate as a consequence. There is a company that will straighten/balence rotors if needs be. As such it's a good idea to test flail toppers before paying good money.

I have a triple gang pto cylinder mower but it doesn't do well with long grass.

@Anderzander you can get a fixed drawbar and PTO for the series 1 

 

[Anderzander]

1 hour ago, muddy said:

@Anderzander you can get a fixed drawbar and PTO for the series 1 

Oooo - like this :

never seen one of those 

[Happyoldgit]

1974 Ford 4000 satisfies my classic tractor itch. There's a DB 1490 with a loader sat at the back of the yard here, when I was given the Big C diagnosis and subsequently laid up in hospital for weeks at the end of 2020 I kept messaging the family to regularly start and run the machinery but they overlooked the DB. Months later I was able to get back in the DB which started fine but found the clutch pedal on the floor as the slave cylinder had leaked the contents of the clutch system. I ordered replacement bits but just have not got round to fitting them so the tractor sits there unloved and slowly turning green. I perhaps ought to get it sold before winter sets in and the land gets too wet.

[steve b]

2 hours ago, L19MUD said:

Whilst we are on this topic has anyone got any experience of using a flail mower around the 6ft size for cutting paddocks? I have only ever used a topper which does the job but leaves the grass in a line if it is left too long between cuts

 

I am thinking a flail with a rear roller will mulch it and spread it giving a better finish?

I have an 8ft rough pasture mower .... the Mog has 540/1000 pto too...

Steve

[steve b]

2 hours ago, Anderzander said:

Oooo - like this :

never seen one of those 

I've always called the drawbar plate for an S1 a farmers plate - it fits across the bottom of the lower section of the rear x-member with a series of holes across it to line up the implement with the pto.

like this

 

Steve

[fmmv]

I drove for pocket money, in my youth ( only ever off road obviously)a MF 35 and a 135.  Very similiar, but as I recall the 135 had a foot throttle as well as hand. Our local farmer did swathe turning with his Series 1, as he said, its quicker.

[landroversforever]

3 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

1974 Ford 4000 satisfies my classic tractor itch. There's a DB 1490 with a loader sat at the back of the yard here, when I was given the Big C diagnosis and subsequently laid up in hospital for weeks at the end of 2020 I kept messaging the family to regularly start and run the machinery but they overlooked the DB. Months later I was able to get back in the DB which started fine but found the clutch pedal on the floor as the slave cylinder had leaked the contents of the clutch system. I ordered replacement bits but just have not got round to fitting them so the tractor sits there unloved and slowly turning green. I perhaps ought to get it sold before winter sets in and the land gets too wet.

Ford 4000s are lovely tractors. I’ve always had an itch for a tractor and it would have to be one of them or MF135  

 

[Happyoldgit]

12 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Ford 4000s are lovely tractors. I’ve always had an itch for a tractor and it would have to be one of them or MF135  

 

Mine. Been a local tractor all it’s life…

Resting in piece…

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Happyoldgit
Add photo

[smallfry]

Here are a couple of our front garden ornaments. The 333 is a highway tractor, so it has a high top gear for motorway cruising. Note the full flow air conditioning, and self cleaning windows. It is also ULEZ compliant. This is what I use to cut the top field.

Also got two Fordson Majors which are as tough as old boots and will start with a foot of snow on the bonnet. Only problem is with these, is that they were designed when a PTO was the new thing out, so the output speed is not ideal. Also what is called dead drive so can be dangerous.

Then there is the Unimog 406 which also has a PTO. But the mounted crane makes it a bit top heavy to mow on a slope.

All this things need not cost much, but like the Land Rover, you can spend a fortune on unnecessary frippery if you want to ! At least there are no electronic things that do not work properly. Indeed there are no electrics. The mice have taken care of that ! I start the tractors with a slave battery.

 

[Peaklander]

11 hours ago, smallfry said:

Also got two Fordson Majors which are as tough as old boots and will start with a foot of snow on the bonnet. Only problem is with these, is that they were designed when a PTO was the new thing out, so the output speed is not ideal. Also what is called dead drive so can be dangerous.

I drove two Majors in my youth, hay making, towing and a lot of snowploughing - winter 78-79 anyone? Also a bigger Zetor.

I re-wired one, so we had lights - “her dad” didn’t seem to mind that they didn’t work but it meant we could snow plough in the dark and I did that and was given the council’s payment for the hours I did do.

As I have rarely driven anything else, I don’t know what dead drive is!

[Stellaghost]

2 hours ago, Peaklander said:

I don’t know what dead drive is!

Pressing the clutch disengages the hydraulics, so to operate say a front loader the tractor would need to be in neutral, that's my understanding of it

Regards Stephen

[Gazzar]

Spent so many hours in a zetor I couldn't count them. I started driving in one at 7 years old. Masseys may be classy, but a zetor is better.