Remove fan?

[iron_city]

41 minutes ago, steve b said:

The brass expansion  tank suggests it was originally a 2.5 N/A or turbo or an early 200 Tdi. Hence the short bellhousing and engine back against the BH. Is reverse up and left?

Steve

@steve b yes, reverse is left and then up 

[steve b]

9 hours ago, iron_city said:

@steve b yes, reverse is left and then up 

that confirms it's an LT77 short bellhousing gearbox - the early 90/110/200 Tdi Defender standard fitment. 

Steve

[Sigi_H]

300Tdi on LT77 :

http://heiderei.ch/Rainer4x4/index2.htm

 

 

[landroversforever]

I know you've got the fan off now, but I'm with @Snagger I'd be trying to keep it, ditching the electric and either finding or making a shroud. If you're going to be working it hard, the electric isn't going to be anywhere near as powerful as the viscous (with shroud).

[muzaz]

On the subject of fans and cowls, fitting a disco 200tdi to a defender, can you keep the fan and cowl?

[western]

Not sure think the fan is in a different location to the Defender spec engine, 

[FridgeFreezer]

On 11/5/2023 at 8:14 AM, Sigi_H said:

But dont´t forget to put an electric fan on the Intercooler as well ! This is often forgotten and was on your setup too, as it seems. If you place a big blowing fan in front of the intercooler it covers a third of the rad as well and can run permanentely.

I thought Daan had run the experiment about forced intercooler cooling and decided it was fairly ineffectual? At low speeds it makes little difference and at higher speeds the wind does the work for you.

[Daan]

34 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I thought Daan had run the experiment about forced intercooler cooling and decided it was fairly ineffectual? At low speeds it makes little difference and at higher speeds the wind does the work for you.

Incorrect; viscous fan is always better for intercooler temperatures especially at low speeds. This is with the cowling mounted as well, which is a problem here.

[Sigi_H]

If you never drive in mountains on gravel roads, the wind will work for you. If not and the engine becomes hot it will be a lot better to have intake air cooling as well.

a drop of 5°C intake air will result in 50°C lower egt

[David Sparkes]

Where inter-cooler fan IS effective is in minimising the effect of radiant heating from any adjacent (hot) water radiator.
I observed this while Real-Time monitoring the charged air temperature in my 38A fitted with an after-market (Jeremy Fearn) intercooler.

This was virtually the same size (area) of the engine coolant radiator, situated in its standard position, which placed the inter-cooler immediately in front of the coolant radiator.

Everything was fine during the 70-ish commute along the M1, but on slowing on the J26 off-slip saw a marked rise in both temperatures, as the heat stored in the engine block was discharged into the coolant, and the coolant radiator radiated this higher temperature into the charged-air intercooler. 
The cure was to switch the standard electric fans into their slow speed mode, the enhanced flow of ambient air being sufficient to disperse the heat while in slow speed traffic.

Monitoring was 'custom', using K type thermocouples via a home built interface into the Picoscope system installed in a PC permanently installed in the car.

Ancient history now, of course, but relevant nevertheless, if anyone cares about this excess heat situation.

Regards.

 

[Daan]

Read all about it here:

The bit that matters:

[Nonimouse]

Like Nick and Ross, I would suggest that you replace the fan and fit a cowl

I). it's designed to cool that engine, towing a 3.5 tonne trailer accrsoos the Danekil Depression.

2). It uses up almost no power

3). It's fit and forget, and only needs a new visocus coupling

The cowl off a Standard 300tdi can be adabpted to fit, just as it's possible to fit a disco cowl onto a defender (with some adjustment form a die grinder)

[Sigi_H]

Using the cowl (if you find a fitting one) is a solution. But fitting a permanent running fan in front of the intercooler might be a lot easier 😉

i can only confirm the statement about the temperatures

[iron_city]

thank you for all of the thoughts on this. I will look to see if I can find a cowl and then reinstall the fan

[FridgeFreezer]

There is also a theory that fitting a honking great electric fan that cycles on/off puts more stress on the head gasket on 200 + 300 due to the iron block & ali head expanding/contracting at different rates. A constantly whirling viscous presumably being a more gentle cooling effect as it locks & unlocks more slowly.

A 2-speed setup might alleviate this though.

[Troll Hunter]

I’ve removed my crankshaft mounted fan, and I’ve got my two previous A/C condenser fans re-allocated to cooling duty.  One fan is dedicated to the intercooler (300Tdi), ducted separately, and runs full time when the ignition is on.  This helps when speed is slow but the engine might be working hard.  The other fan is on a 2-stage thermostat and starts when the radiator feed exceeds 82 Deg F.  As coolant temperature rises there is a large diameter electric fan, using the original ducting, that kicks in 88 Deg F.  This also initiates a buzzer and dash warning light to warn that the coolant temperature is rising.  I’ve also got a low coolant level detector in the header tank which is also connected to a warning bulb and the buzzer.  I’m intending to get a coolant temperature indicator which shows actual temperature in degrees to replace the standard LR temperature indicator.

Mike

[FridgeFreezer]

Worth noting (as a friend once found out) that AC condenser fans are not always up to the job of cooling the whole vehicle, they can be there purely to supplement the main fan when the AC is working hard.

[Snagger]

On 11/6/2023 at 1:00 PM, muzaz said:

On the subject of fans and cowls, fitting a disco 200tdi to a defender, can you keep the fan and cowl?

I doubt it as the water pump and fan are minted considerably lower on the Discovery version, and likely more offset to one side.   It might be possible with the matching shroud, though.

I can tell you with certainty that it is not possible to fit the viscous fan of the Discovery engine in a Series vehicle because it fouls the chassis and brake lines, but I don’t know if that is a problem with the different chassis shape and higher engine mounting position in a Defender.

[FridgeFreezer]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:00 AM, muzaz said:

On the subject of fans and cowls, fitting a disco 200tdi to a defender, can you keep the fan and cowl?

I think @miketomcat did on his 90 (called "45", there's a build thread in the members vehicles section).

[muzaz]

7 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I think @miketomcat did on his 90 (called "45", there's a build thread in the members vehicles section).

Thanks, will have a look.

[Bowie69]

Honestly for the faff, I'd just fit a decent electric and make servicing a million times easier. 

[miketomcat]

1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I think @miketomcat did on his 90 (called "45", there's a build thread in the members vehicles section).

On 45 I fitted a disco 200tdi in a TD 90. I found that if your lucky the viscous fan just clears the steering box and bottom hose (worth noting it doesn't clear on all 90/110's) in this instance you can fit the TD cowl upside down with the addition of some holes for the intercooler pipework.

However our 110 has an electric fan on a 200tdi but it's on a switch and only gets used about twice a year. The ibex has an electric fan also but is on a thermostatic switch so cuts in an out after motorway runs or heavy towing. Neither are on the intercooler.

Personally if you have a viscous fan with cowl leave it alone. If you don't or can't fit the cowl an electric fan works just fine.

Mike

[Sigi_H]

19 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

... and make servicing a million times easier. 

Yesss!!!

I can sit on the slam panel with the legs on the front axle while adjusting valves or changing the timing belt.

My first el. fan bogged down because it never switched on. I built a manual switch so that I could switch it on manually before I drove into difficult terrain or long uphill stretches. The switch also prevented it from seizing up

Edited November 8, 2023 by Sigi_H

[FridgeFreezer]

11 minutes ago, Sigi_H said:

My first el. fan bogged down because it never switched on. I built a manual switch so that I could switch it on manually before I drove into difficult terrain or long uphill stretches. The switch also prevented it from seizing up

Good to have a 3-way switch (with warning light) so you can disable it when wading too.

[Nonimouse]

Some years back, whilst working for the late, lamanted OEC, I went through a fair Disco to Defender 200tdi fittings. I found that with patience and a decent die grinder it was possible to make the Disco or Defender cowl fit, enough that it worked. At the time I was driving my sadly missed 200Tdi Disco engined 100". That was fitted with a Revotech fan, with a cowl to cover the intercooler/rad. It was also fitted with a Brass/copper rad with an extra row. I used an Xeng controller with a two stage switch and manual override.  Summer or winter I used to check the damn thing at least every week as it neve came on!  Well, it did once, at Seven Sisters, after prelonged use of the loud pedal to get through the bog in Happy Valley.

I could run it up Haldon Hill on the A38, with 2.5 tonnes on the back, in the summer and it still wouldnt heat up.

As most of you know, I have a 200tdi in my Disco, running 235/85x16's. It doesnt get over warm with 3.5 tommes on the rear. Hell, when I accidentally loaded 6 tonnes of logs in an 800kg trailer it didn't get over warm.