Attitudes of road users

[Brookers]

Oh dear now my cage has been rattled For anyone who dosn't know I'm a DSA approved Driving Instructor.

To add a bit more to the Driving examiner neighbour. NO driver has right of way in any situation! The only user who has right of way are pedestrians who have right of way in situations like Zebra crossings and when crossing the road at a junction. If a car is either exiting a minor road or turning in to the minor road and a pedestrian wishes to cross they have the right of way!

As a driver you only ever have PRIORITY never the right of way. I know i'm being pedantic but next time you have to fill in a collision report form it's nice to be factually correct!

Mini roundabouts.

When turning left signal left as you approach and drive through.

When following the road ahead taking the second exit no signal is required as you approach. If you have the time to signal left, to indicate to other users you are leaving, do so as you pass the first exit.

The Highway Code states that you do not have to signal when leaving a mini roundabout.

Bearing this in mind when turning right indicate right as you approach and if you have time signal left to indicate your exit as you pass the second exit.

A mini roundabout is one without a raised center protected by a kerb.

If you find yourself in a mexican standoff where there is a car at each road and know one knows who can go, you should try and make eye contact with the other drivers. Never take priority always wait for it to be offerd to you!

Major roundabouts.

Same as above as you approach but you should always signal to say you are leaving.

If there are more than 3 exits you should treat all further exits as turning right, waiting to idicate untill you reach the mid point of the exit before the one you intend to take.

Remember when your following the road ahead always treat it as your coming from 6 o'clock.

If the second exit is on or before 12 o'clock then you need to use the left hand lane as you approach.

If it is past 12 o'clock then treat it as a right turn and indicate right as you approach then signal at the correct time to indicate your leaving.

If there are markings on the road follow them as at some roundabouts your instructed to use the right hand lane to follow the road ahead.

And yes you do give way to traffic from the RIGHT! Remember that next time you see a black Clio Learner car comming at you from your right co's I know i'm in the right and I will hit you and let the insurance company sort it out. Who will they belive? Yep the driving instructor co's we only crash when we know we can sue and win

Seriously people not indicating and being in the wrong lane causes so many prolems when your trying to teach somone to drive and they are trying to learn roundabouts.

Some other points to consider,

You should keep to your lane through a roundabout, do not straight line it, You can get away with straight lining a roundabout if your sure your not going to cut anyone up. In all the time I have been teaching only one student has got away with it and she was exceptionally good with her use of mirrors and observations.

Fog lights use them when its FOGGY (visibility down to 100m or less) NOT when your headlight bulb is out, its wet, its sunny, "it looks cool" (May they all crash and die!)

In this country we drive on the left unless overtaking, so get out of the F******G middle lane when the left hand lanes empty!

Stop means stop! But did you know failing to stop at a stop junction is £60 and 3 points?

Nissan Micras, WHY?

People driving with their door mirrors folded in! I mean how can you drive safely with no door mirrors?

I could go on.

If anyone has a driving question please ask! If your too embarressed to go public PM me, far better to know whats what. Oh and get a copy of the new Highway Code! Yes things have changed, and it makes interested reading on the mobility scooters!

Finall thought, did you know that when driving a modern car with disk brakes you should use the brakes to slow the vehicle NOT the gears!

Time for my medication!

Brookers

[simonr]

Agree with everything said - and at least try to drive like that.

Finall thought, did you know that when driving a modern car with disk brakes you should use the brakes to slow the vehicle NOT the gears!

While true, I find, particularly in a 4x4 on wet / icy roads using engine braking is a lot less likely to go wrong than using the brakes. It's generally a lot more gentle than I can be with my boots on! Same principle as hill descents I guess.

Si

[Brookers]

Agree with everything said - and at least try to drive like that.

While true, I find, particularly in a 4x4 on wet / icy roads using engine braking is a lot less likely to go wrong than using the brakes. It's generally a lot more gentle than I can be with my boots on! Same principle as hill descents I guess.

Si

Si I agree but its what I have to teach! not everything makes sense, like push pull steering! Anyone know where that comes from and when?

Brookers

[Anderzander]

Back in the day when they had no suspension and giant steering wheels?

[Brookers]

Back in the day when they had no suspension and giant steering wheels?

Just about! IIRC it was 1926 when the then dept of transport asked the police to write a driving manual. Never been reassed since.

But 95% of drivers don't use push pull steering after they pass their test and we don't have loads of accidents because of it!

Brookers

[GBMUD]

Palming the wheel, that is the way. Oh, and gripping the rim from the inside of the wheel... and crossing hands.

I have a question though; why does every driving instructor in Trowbridge choose my road for the 3 point turn, the parallel park and the reverse around a corner practice? As a resident and regular daytime road user it drives me insane when I get held up almost every day. OK, tongue in cheek, I know we all have to learn, but couldn't it be spread around a bit? My patience is wearing very thin.

Chris

[Brookers]

Palming the wheel, that is the way. Oh, and gripping the rim from the inside of the wheel... and crossing hands.

I have a question though; why does every driving instructor in Trowbridge choose my road for the 3 point turn, the parallel park and the reverse around a corner practice? As a resident and regular daytime road user it drives me insane when I get held up almost every day. OK, tongue in cheek, I know we all have to learn, but couldn't it be spread around a bit? My patience is wearing very thin.

Chris

Chris this is a issue all over the country. wherever there is a test center there is a high number of learners and this leads to conflicts with local residents. Trowbridge should be getting better for you now the DSA have closed the test center there. I feel sorry for the residents of Yeovil and Chipenham as thats where all the learners are going now!

To be honest when your teaching trying to find suitable roads to practise manouvers can be very difficult. I try to find somewhere quiet as we try to avoide holding up other road users. Then you have to remember that most of modern housing estates are carp because they are all dead ends and little culdesacs and modern planners love to stick speed bumps in awquard places.

Finally as a student gets close to their test its good to practise the manouvers in the places where they may be asked to do them on their test so if you live on a test route you will get a lot of learners practising there.

You can always tell when a student is on a test as the fun police have made the examiners wear high vis jackets. So if the passenger is wearing high vis please be nice to the driver!

If you feel that the the number of learners is unreasonable. Write to the DSA and complain. We often get notices in the local test centers instructing us to avoid certain roads due to complaints from local residents.

Brookers

[Simon Smith]

When I'm in the tractor, everyone coming towards me thinks I'm driving a mini. One day the 10' wide flail mower on the back will have someones roof off, or their head if they're in a 4x4

In the Landy most people give me space, but there are many who think it's ok to drive straight at me down the middle of the pilgrims way and that I will stop for them. If there's plenty of room I ain't stopping so you better move over.

On the bike, I often ride to Croydon up the B269. There is a long section with herringbones surrounded by broken lines where I could safely pass the near stationary traffic. So why do most motorists deliberately pull over into the herringbones to stop me

And I think the slowing down with the brakes thing is so very wrong. Every winter someone gets killed on Titsey hill because they brake on the ice instead of changing down at the top of the hill. I was taught, I believe correctly, that brakes are only for bringing the vehicle to a standstill. Why was it changed? I was told that the change was made because it's easier to replace brakes than clutches, but there are two things wrong with this argument. Firstly on a long hill you can easily overheat disk brakes to the point that an emergency stop at the bottom is impossible, I have seen glowing disks at the bottom of titsey, and we have accidents all the time at the bottom where people can't stop. Secondly using engine braking properly cannot possibly wear the clutch.

[Simon Smith]

But Friday night in Leigh, Kent, with cars parked on the opposite side of the road to my direction of travel, moving cars were overtaking the parked cars with me and the nas stuffed into the kerb stopped to avoid them hitting me. Talk about muppets with a 5mm mild steel winch bumper on the nas

A 130 was stolen from Leigh, I don't suppose it passed you

http://www.nobs.org.uk/forum/phpbb2/viewto...&highlight=

[tacr2man]

As an ex police driver , the reason for the change to using the brakes for slowing instead of down changing was financial, (gearbox wear not clutch),as well as the better braking ability before fading that the intro of disc brakes brought in , it also brings in a commonality of driving style when using auto trans , the push pull method of steering , is so you dont run out of steering movement, if you suddenly need to use a lot more than you expected, its not so justified nowadays as most vehicles are pas so the number of turns lock to lock is a lot less.

[Roverdrive]

FWIW we still teach the push pull method when instructing for offroad driving.

The official line is that it gives more control in these conditions, but I also find that it slows the "gung ho" merchants down as they can't keep up with the steering.

[Simon Smith]

Drive down Titsey in top gear using the brakes, and I guarantee you won't be able to perform an emergency stop at the bottom.

I demonstrated this to myself once, when I thought the disk brakes on my "new" Spitfire would be fine, I drove down the hill in top gear and tried to slow and turn into the pilgrims way at the bottom. I could not make the turn so stopped further down the road. The disks were red hot and the hub grease was boiling and coming out the seals. Most modern cars are heavier than a Spitfire, and most only have single pot calipers, so I don't think they would perform much better.

I would rather people wore their gearboxes out (how?) than kept having accidents. There used to be a sign saying "engage low gear now" at the top of the hill, but it has been removed. We have an accident at least once a month at the bottom of the hill, but the authorities refuse to make it a blackspot because not enough people are killed Where is the logic in that?

Two months ago I closed the road off while the police were on their way, my lodger attended the accident with other neighbours and did what they could. A man lost control of his car coming down the hill, his brakes failed and he couldn't make the bend. He hit a 4x4 coming the other way and was killed instantly, it was not a pretty sight.

Because of where I live, and the sheer number of accidents we see in the village, I KNOW that the modern method is wrong. Fortunately most cars just end up in the field

[Brookers]

Ok there seams to be a little confusion as to what the correct method is with using the brakes to slow a vehicle.

If you are decending a steep hill with bends then of course you should engage a low gear. But what the DSA examiners want to see on a driving test is the candidate to slow the car with the brakes to say 35 - 40 mph and then engage 3rd for the decent to control the car.

What the examiners don't want to see is the candidate slowing the car by just easing of the gas, then changing from 5th to 4th then 4th to 3rd to slow the car.

The argument is that by just changing down to slow the car and not using the brake then in that situation you are wearing the clutch unnecessarily

How much of a difference this really makes is open to debate but it's how I have to teach according to the DSA. As a asside the last clutch on my teaching car lasted 140K with learners driving with this method and 140k is not bad for the average driver.

Brookers

[mickeyw]

I could rant about other drivers for days, but I can't afford to pull any more hair out! I have to agree that I would expect other motorists to notice something as big as a Landrover. Generally when I'm in the (blue) V8 90 people tend to give way.

When in the 90 it is rare to get into a jostling contest where two lanes merge, but when I do it's invariably with a small car. I reckon the other motorist sees a Landrover, thinks slow truck, and decides to have a go at getting past. When this happens I'm afraid to say I plant my right foot and surprise them Normally I win, unless they happen to have a deathwish, in which case I take action (and lots of horn) to prevent the impending smash up.

On the other hand, when in the RRC (Ardennes green), I may as well be invisible! Traffic always pulls out right in front of me requiring heavy braking on my part. Another trick is to simply move sideways at me on dual carriageways.

Is there something about this green that magnetically draws cars and vans towards it? Why is it so less visible than Stratos blue? What are the stats for green cars and prangs? Others have suggested repainting it orange, but I like green, and orange wouldn't be very PC would it.

The annoying part is that I wouldn't be that bothered if some dumba55 wanted to hit the 90, it has enough dents already, all off-road injuries. But why aim for my nice shiny RRC :angry:

[dantd5]

After having upgraded from a 89 whitish fiesta to a 99 td5 defender 110, I for once realise I would live longer. I felt like a cat with 9 lives in the fiesta . I have even ended up in shrubbery as the bigger cars simply bulllied me off the road.

Currently the adverse is evident. People stop,stare and saliver as I drive pass them. Stresslessly and arrogantly I drive every corner and even the cops flashes their light in recognition of the "Armour Tanker" around!!

I must admit I have seen many-a-land-rovers in serious mishaps on some Safari Tours in Africa. They lie in shambles with squashed roof tops and dented bonets... Guess they have been hiting Rhinos or betterstill Elephants!!

[110WestCape]

Quite disconcerting initially , but you quickly

learn as the S.A. drivers leave you in no doubt about their feelings if you get

it wrong .

Quite amusing when someone "leaves you in no doubt about their feelings" when their perception of the correct method to negotiate a round about is in fact not so correct. Some even become infuriated if you give them a polite applause and a grin ...... can for the life of me not understand why they get cross.

Some interesting perceptions regarding round abouts. My dearest and many others insist on indicating to the right when entering a round about ..... that is after all the only direction you can legally go around it, in SA that is. They then forget to indicate to the left when they approach the chosen exit. The result is like in the movie "Meet the Fokkers" .......@@@sshoolle.

[RichardAllen]

I found a massive change in attitudes moving from Surrey to Gloucestershire. Here is Glos there are many more narrow single country lanes with passing points, so most people are used to reversing back to let someone through. This then gets reflected into a generally more tolerant attitudes by all motorists towards their fellow road users, in my experience.

As for Landy driving my 90 is big, red and visible; so motoring is easier than in a Smart, I would expect. Part of the reason I bought it, and commute with it (30 miles each way, mostly motorway), is that it only does 73 tops, so I cannot compete with fast-laners. The result, much more relaxed, stress-free travelling; albeit slower. There is nothing quite like pottering along home behind a truck at 56 to drain the stresses of the working day on my way home. It is also helping get my points tally down.

The driving standard I try and set myself is:

- leave plenty of time for the trip

- give way to everyone,

- leave plenty of space for everyone

- relax

- relax again.

I don't always live up to this, but having a comparatively slow Landy very much helps.

Regards

Richard

[denviks]

hhmmm being invisible....yup i am used to that.

in the 110 ( goliath ) i have no trouble atall .... apart from the " i must be infront of that " brigade....i am getting calmer these days and just let it pass. i have the start of greay hair already and dont want to make it worse

poeple tend to try and avoid the 110. they tend to stop and give me " right of way" even when its not mine. you know the sceane where you both stop to allow the other to drive through .

now when i am driving the misses freelander,.....well thats different. they seem to see shiney vehicle and push their way through. no idea why they do it.... i still drive the same whay as i do in the 110.

now what really makes my bloody boil is when i am out on my motorbike.... cars, busses , lorries, 4x4, all treat you like someone who is gonna die in an accident anyway so who cares....

they seem to want to hasted that action too. aparently motorcyles dont have a right of way at any time....and dont deserve it. i ride so defensivly now its begining not to be fun anymore. now thats a sign of the times right there ima sure.....

sorry....i went into rant mode then

[ThreePointFive]

Reading some of the comments on here in regards to default by right of way because it's a big car is disapointing. If you want to play the warrior behind the wheel then that's your choice, but do us all a favour and get something that we don't have so at least then we're not dragged into your driving habits that earn us all a bad reputation.

With adverts on TV like the Navara one - it gets respect, it's no wonder there is an anti 4x4 movement which isn't based on environmental issues. They may as well write 'warrior' down the side of it...

Come on... what ever happened to driving a car - which is what it is - like any other car?

[101sean]

Driving in rural areas of Ireland can be quite amusing, especially with older generation, I dread getting stuck behind an old car (nearly always a 93 red Corolla) or a Nissan Micra, the first will be driven by a flat cap, the second by a little old woman peering over the wheel, both only capable of 25mph. Mini roundabouts are a recent thing here, and they haven't a clue what to do and panic or give way on the roundabout. Bear in mind that many of them will have been driving for years on a provisional licence and never passed a test. Everyone here religiously also drives right round mini-roundabouts, I just go over the top.

I live on a tiny country lane and have had several near misses, usually with women tearing round the corners never expecting to meet anyone coming the other way, even if they do see you they won't go near the verge and expect me to get in the hedge.

When I first got my 101 back in the UK I found it was invisible unless I drove with the headlights on, I was forever getting cut up. Also why is when you've got a bit of speed up, drivers pull out so they don't get stuck behind a slow Land Rover (which isn't at all slow) and then dawdle along.

I'll often let other drivers out of turnings no matter what they are in provided they are are making an effort, if they sit 6ft back behind the the line and looking anxious, they can stay there all day!

[Retroanaconda]

Reading some of the comments on here in regards to default by right of way because it's a big car is disapointing. If you want to play the warrior behind the wheel then that's your choice, but do us all a favour and get something that we don't have so at least then we're not dragged into your driving habits that earn us all a bad reputation.

With adverts on TV like the Navara one - it gets respect, it's no wonder there is an anti 4x4 movement which isn't based on environmental issues. They may as well write 'warrior' down the side of it...

Come on... what ever happened to driving a car - which is what it is - like any other car?

*sigh*

As I said, there's a difference between being in a car others are more cautious of driving into (ie giving you 'default right of way'), and actually assuming you have said right of way and disregarding traffic laws and practices.

On my road the double-parked cars make it a single lane all the way down. If someone meets me half-way, they usually back off (except for that guy in the lifted Rangie) of their own accord. I don't agressively drive toward them, and I'm perfectly happy to back up, but most people seem to give me passage. That doesn't make me a 'warrior behind the wheel'.

[hattymender]

I'm getting a bit worried here about the 'might is right' theme. I've always tried to be considerate and not push a situation. If I wanted to get somewhere fast then a 110 isn't a good idea. Even the V8 (when it eventually runs) is more for being able to keep up (modest) speed on hills rather than tear up road in 'Mondeo rep' manner.

There's always going to be some tit on the road but with the current level of anti Land Rover press I think we should try to be better than the rest. (That is unless they cut you up by a Skoda in which case it's fair do's to scare the little s*d).

Also. How many here are men of 'slightly cosmetically challenged' variety? My wife doesn't understand the problem at junctions; "you just smile and wave and they let you out". Doesn't work for me. I wonder why?

[Bowie69]

I don't think anyone is saying 'might is right' here, just that other road users seem to appreciate teh size of a specific vehicle coming towards them, and decide that it might be better if they reverse, rather than the 2+ton vehicle in front of them.

If anything I think most of it has to do with considerate road users rather than people being frightened off the road or '4x4 drivers' bullying other road users -for instance, if you see a artic truck coming towards you and you can back the landy up 20 yds to make his life easier, you do, don't you? well I do anyways, I like to think this is reciprocated.

[Turbocharger]

I had a chap in a builders van meet my LR head on in a gap - cars parked to make a one-lane road which went around a corner so you have to pick your moment and set off. We stopped about twenty feet apart, both with cars behind us. The chap in the van dealt with the situation by blaring his horn, flashing his lights and then getting out for a rant at me. I blew him a kiss, his mates in the van particularly liked that.

[Steve King]

Did he blow you one back??