pugwash Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Bish and I have been thinking (in my case that takes a while) Some of you will know that Bish has been trying to organise a bit of a southwest play day but has been having problems. i have found a site which would be suitable, but we now have a problem with arranging insurance. We can arrange it, but no one solution is ideal. We were chatting earlier today about this, and came to the conclusion that the most sensible things to do would be to explore the potential of having our own club insurance- this means we need to have a "club"! Now i know some of you have been against starting clubs in the past, but the good points behind this would be: 1. Most of us on here know each other, if not directly from having met, then indirectly through here, or via friends. 2. We all seem to get on very well and are pretty like minded when it comes to cars etc. 3. We all seem to enjoy play sites outside of the trad pay and play scene- Majority of us have been involved with setting up 7s, or our own custom sites (Paul C, Luvvers, fruity et al) 4. Many of us live either in the southwest or the south or don't mind travelling- which means good access for all for loads and loads of sites. 5. Most of us don't actually seem to be current active members of other clubs in the off road scene 6. We are all pretty business minded, so setting up and running a club quckly and easily shouldn't be beyond our considerable skills (as long as someone else handles all the paperwork then i'm happy lol) 7. Many of our vehicles are broadly similar in terms of ability and spec (ie most are a little bit tricked up at least) although some of our driving skills (and i do mean me) seem to be lacking. So what we would like to know is: 1. Is anyone else up for it 2. What are the main objections if any 3. Who knows the ins and outs of going about setting up a club 4. Who should be treasurer/ director- i think it would be fair to say that Bish and I would like to be founders of the club- but i feel the admins should have some say too if they want to 5. How "active" would the club be- should it be quite passive with just being used for events or would we like a bigger club presence like SORC? 6. Does anybody think this is a really poo idea? 7. How does the LR4x4 club sound- i quite like the way it's written! 8. i would presume that the club would be an off shoot of the website- if the founders agree- and not the other way round- ie you can be on the website as a member, but you would also have to be a Member of the offroad club. Les Geoff and the other founding memebers- i really hope i'm not stepping on your toes here- i don't mean to, and i assumed (and i know assumptino is the mother of all **** ups) that you guys wouldn't mind as we are a pretty laid back forum- feel free to pull the post if it steps on your toes too much. looking forward in anticipation to any replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 As the vice-chairman of Shire Land Rover Club - don't under-estimate the amount of work required to run a club. You need quite a wide range of skills too. We already have donations to run the forum, will there be a membership fee too ? Personally I like it the way it is. If insurance is the main driver, and the event is in the south.....talking out of turn, and not running it past the committee, maybe the Shires could host it (or another club - I'm easy) to piggy-back of their insurance. This 'joint' event would mean our members would be eligable to enter any forum meets, and if you pay our membership of £10PA you'd be covered by our insurance. Affliating to several regional clubs in this way would be my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltwt1981 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I agree with MogLite, loads of work in a club, maybe HBRO members would like a piggy back membership. Lots are now members through MWWCE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I agree with MogLite, loads of work in a club, maybe HBRO members would like a piggy back membership. Lots are now members through MWWCE. HAHAHA I just read the initial thread, and thought of me answer.... Then I read Andys comment - thought "Spot On" same as my view... Then I read Nigel Ts - HAHA Both are 101% correct, wheres the location ? Nige AWDC HBRO & SHIRES member ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I agree with MogLite, loads of work in a club, maybe HBRO members would like a piggy back membership. Lots are now members through MWWCE. I agree with ltwt1981 who agrees with moglite, Im on the commitee of our club, its a lot of work and needs dedication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 from what I gather, the club is to get insurance for events: so is it possible to have one or 2 members to get club insurance and on the day, anyone taking part in the playing can become a honaroy member for the duration of the day? (hope that meakes sense). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I agree with ltwt1981 who agrees with moglite, Im on the commitee of our club, its a lot of work and needs dedication. On the south Coast there are five clubs on a 50 mile strech of coast line Shire Me founder member play days and Laning SAD member play days and Laning SCOR racing and Trialing MSA up for anything that will be competertive and a laugh Wessex hill runners MSA play days and Laning DROC ARC Trailing and stuff HBRO ARC Trailing and stuff. There is need for more club fee's round the south coast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The All Wheel Drive Club is a national club with autonomous regions which pretty much do their own thing to suit local needs. As long as events are organised under the AWDC rules you are covered by the club's MSA insurance. Why not use this 'umbrella' mechanism to do your thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 how about getting a few quotes for insurance first. the site I use for winch events supplies insurance in the cost. how about joining HBRO and arranging an event like Nigel etc did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 how about getting a few quotes for insurance first.the site I use for winch events supplies insurance in the cost. how about joining HBRO and arranging an event like Nigel etc did? The AWDC idea is a good one as it a national forum. I know a MSA club that have a committee member that is keen to get the club into Challange events but the rest of the committee are very usure about the running of said event but he is the club scrotineer and has been use for challange national event. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Hello from Up North!! I'd like the odd day oot with forum members, but its a bit of a hike from here!! The only local club around these parts is NE4x4 which encompases all makes of vehicle. I can't see the problem with just Pay and Play. Organise a meet and just turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Most landowners won't let you 'Pay & Play' without insurance. What happens if you roll over on top of a spectator/marshal/fellow driver/small child? Your motor insurance won't cover you The landowners insurance won't cover you (not authorised activity) So you end up in court being stuffed for zillions of £££s for damage It's just not worth it MSA insurance costs around £3.50 per car and provides £20 million public liability insurance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelf Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 running a club is hard going especialy when the member are scattered all over the country. we used to try and do committee meetings via MSN Messenger.... that was a challenge in itself, trying tofind a suitable time that evryone was happy with. ive not met any of you apart from tony and will...along time ago, but hopefuly this year sometime i will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The AWDC idea is a good one as it a national forum.I know a MSA club that have a committee member that is keen to get the club into Challange events but the rest of the committee are very usure about the running of said event but he is the club scrotineer and has been use for challange national event. Jules I am the Vice chairman of a MSA club down here in the southwest, and did bring the subject of a "orienteering" type of event as per the blue book,at our last committee meeting, with a bit of "modification" one of "our" type of events could be run to blue book (MSA) rules, but as jules has said, there is not enought experiance within our club to run this type of event, but with some "help" from the right quarters, am sure something can be sorted, and run under MSA club insurance My Blue book is in the office, so can not remember word for word, the mods we would have to do, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 First time in my life I'd love to be part of a club and guess what...? There's sea in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I am the Vice chairman of a MSA club down here in the southwest, and did bring the subject of a "orienteering" type of event as per the blue book,at our last committee meeting, with a bit of "modification" one of "our" type of events could be run to blue book (MSA) rules, but as jules has said, there is not enought experiance within our club to run this type of event, but with some "help" from the right quarters, am sure something can be sorted, and run under MSA club insurance My Blue book is in the office, so can not remember word for word, the mods we would have to do, The MSA regs allow you to run a challenge event as a combination of 2 disciplines where you pay the higher permit fee (I assume you are talking about Challenge) We run them as Orienteering + Trial or Time Trial with no problems I have run the AWDC Scorpion Racing Challenge Trophy last year and this with no repercussions from the MSA regarding format etc. Please feel free to PM me, I would be happy to share the Regs which the MSA have approved to broaden interest in the discipline. Equally I guess that Nige B and the HBRO are doing exactly the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Insurance is an interesting thing. I have come across a fair few sites/venues who claim to offer insurance. When the actual paperwork is studied it very rarely covers the activities on offer. The best I have see so far is the mob that Shire use (and now J33P) as that covers most scenarios. All a landowner cares about (and needs to be covered by the law) is their won liability insurance as long as they have got the 'acceptance' form right (NOT disclaimer...) But as a club, unless you are a charity, you come under the auspices of the HSE inspectorate. As such if you provides marshals, 'instructors', guides, CoC's - they must be 'Trained to an adequate standard and capable of risk assessment' to cover their job. EVEN IF THEY VOLUNTEER! If you want to argue, fine. Just ring up the HSE and put a major incident scenario to them, or even better, try it. If you have covered all the bases even a civil action will be thrown out of court Jim, I am up for this and I need to talk to you about it as I may be able to help with costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Jim, I am up for this and I need to talk to you about it as I may be able to help with costs David, after our converstaions of the last few days (weeks) I think I know where you are coming from with this one ....... like I said ..........count me in. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 But as a club, unless you are a charity, you come under the auspices of the HSE inspectorate. As such if you provides marshals, 'instructors', guides, CoC's - they must be 'Trained to an adequate standard and capable of risk assessment' to cover their job. EVEN IF THEY VOLUNTEER! ?? HSE re club events ?? David,, where did you find the quote from,, would be interset to know, ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 know a few places in somerset,awdc use them alot around here but there a bit rough on the trucks! Quarries my favourite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Tim, The quote is a standard HSE quote used for when an individual or individuals are responsible for potentially life threatening operations. If you have a marshal who simply takes times on a stop watch, then unless something truly appalling happens then that's okay. If you have a recovery marshal using a winch or a vehicle to recover someone that is when it gets interesting. TPL covers accidental damage, but not deliberate and the law can (and has) interpreted 'damage to persons by responsible volunteers' as deliberate... Nest time you come to apub meet we can talk about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 If you have a recovery marshal using a winch or a vehicle to recover someone that is when it gets interesting. TPL covers accidental damage, but not deliberate and the law can (and has) interpreted 'damage to persons by responsible volunteers' as deliberate... As a MSA licenced recovery operator/unit owner I'm very careful when spectators are watching a rallycar being recovered, keep them well out of the way but so there still able to see what's happening. I was the Sec for our recovery association for 4 years, it was interesting but demanding, there's a lot more to it than anyone thinks, don't think I'll do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Most landowners won't let you 'Pay & Play' without insurance. What happens if you roll over on top of a spectator/marshal/fellow driver/small child? Your motor insurance won't cover you Are you talking about Pay & Play or a competitive event? It's not hard to get motor insurance which will cover you off road for non-competitive use. As far as forming a club goes - my feeling is that clubs of this type tend to work best in a relatively small geographical area, and even if you ignore the fact that this is an international forum with members all over the world we still have a good proportion of members who don't live in the South of England. If you decide you're prepared to take on the burden of running a club, would you be prepared to organise a decent number of events up round Aberdeen and Inverness for the members up there? I'd be concerned about forming an elite of 'proper' paid up club members, too - I know that's not your intention, but it may well be what would happen over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Having read through all the replies and opinions, I think that probably the best way forward is to piggy back on a club. However, I don't want to have to join a different club for each forum event I go to. I know this is not the case as many of the bigger sites are equipped with their own insurance, but in the South West we seem a bit devoid of suitable candidates. So, specifically for events in the South West, which club makes most sense? I suppose we should have a poll of all Forum members who are likely to / have in the past attended events down this way, but first I need some suggestions as to which clubs would be the best to approach. Shires and J33P are contenders, but which others are worth considering? Answers on a post card / £10 note please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 First time in my life I'd love to be part of a club and guess what...?There's sea in between. and FRANCE (Eeck!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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