Tom Goldsmith Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have a 2007 Defender 110 with utility back which I am fitting out for a long expedition which will take me from the Arctic down through Africa and eventually to Australia. Having spent this winter suffering from constant condensation in the rear of the truck I am now determined to insulate all the accessible body panels and possible underneath the roof headlining. What I have in mind is to buy a number of 12mm closed cell foam camping mats and stick them to the metal panels using contact adhesive. Then cover this with the thin “carpet” type material used to line motorhomes. Has anyone undertaken a similar insulation of their truck and can offer any advice or alternatives. In particular I would be interested to hear how effective their solution was and whether it coped with both the extreme cold and heat which I will be encountering. Also anyone know where I can purchase the lining material used in motorhomes? Thanks Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Have you thought about loft insulation, not the glass fibre type but the hi-tech layered space blanket type. Its very effective and thin, not particually expensive either. Whatever you do youll likely still get condensation because water naturally gathers on the coldest surface, if its not the roof, itll be the sides, or quite possibly the windows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have a 2007 Defender 110 with utility back which I am fitting out for a long expedition which will take me from the Arctic down through Africa and eventually to Australia. Having spent this winter suffering from constant condensation in the rear of the truck I am now determined to insulate all the accessible body panels and possible underneath the roof headlining. What I have in mind is to buy a number of 12mm closed cell foam camping mats and stick them to the metal panels using contact adhesive. Then cover this with the thin “carpet” type material used to line motorhomes. Has anyone undertaken a similar insulation of their truck and can offer any advice or alternatives. In particular I would be interested to hear how effective their solution was and whether it coped with both the extreme cold and heat which I will be encountering. Also anyone know where I can purchase the lining material used in motorhomes? Thanks Tom A thought? Expedition companies will share expereince with you - or You could contact Bellargio - and ask them for advice - they fit for Sultan of Brunei - but I am sure they might be a good soul and pass on any expereince - my opinion - so not that valuable- is that the matt would still with carpet hold moisture Someone will know - good luck - sounds great chrisp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wunntenn Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hi Tom - I've done my own 110 hardtop with closed cell foam which I bought from a chemical convertor (see yellow pages) which comes in 8x4 ft sheets. Dont faff about with the headlining - get rid of it all the way through - you wont miss it and wont end up with bats/mice/cockroaches living under it! I chose 7mm nominal thickness and stuck on two layers all round the roof and sides, and one on the rear floor under some ply on top of which all my storage boxes go. On top of the roof layers I put carpet, and on the van sides a couple of pieces of 1/4 inch ply (with some bits of 1 inch white builders foam behind in the gap between the side 'ribs') and onto the ply I've attached various bits and bobs like hooks and eyes and bits of shockcord, to hang, hold and loop stuff. I've cut some foam to fit the windows and stick that up at nights if its really cold - side ones have a flap and slit at top so if I crack the window open I get some air in. I've had zero condensation in the rear and only minor drips on the glass, and this is using it in sub-zero winter weather (I work out of it on location) in conditions that include hail, drifting snow, and serious ice (north of Scotland and some of the islands, in winter). I've also fitted an Eberspacher D4W diesel pre-heater/heater and run this every now and again until I get into my sleeping bag and then I'm plenty comfy through the night. I got enough foam to do all the metal bits including bulkhead, footwells underfoot and in front facing the engine although did not glue this on so I can get it out to dry the front when the normal LR leaks get in. Tips? Choice of glue is important. Some of the aerosol stuff wont hold up in the heat of the tropics. Goes hard and brittle and fails. The best stuff is evostik but its quite expensive to do a whole van, and it stinks and will nearly kill you doing it. I did discover a white non-solvent evostik which has low odour and sticks just as well as the smelly stuff, and can recommend that. The glue may seem expensive but its the same price as doing it with cheap stuff three times! Main tip - make sure the foam suppler is reputable - first batch I got was open cell and poor quality and would act like a sponge so I sent it back to them and went elsewhere - proper closed cell foam wont absorb moisture. Company that sells the good stuff is Kay Metzeler. Its not a hard job to do - a sharp Stanle knife, big board to lean on, straight edge and tape measure is all you need - and a dry and reasonably warm day so all the panels to be stuck to are dry to ensure a good bond. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD508X Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I glued camping mats to roof and sides of my hardtop 15 years ago and it is still there. One corner peeled back, I think the carpet spray glue was applied too thinly as the can ran out, but glued it back with some evostick I found in Nairobi. It also appeared that the spray adhesive had dried and became powdery, so a stronger contact glue may be the answer. Do a test strip and make sure the foam does not dissolve. I slept in the back in winter in UK and Spain with nil condensation and still use it at altitude in Africa with no problem. Carpet may be too heavy, rough open weave may not stick so well. Camping mats are really easy to cut and trim with a new sharp scalpel blade and are so lightweight. I also stuck thin but rigid plastic sheet over foam on side panels to prevent damage. Try Devon Conversions Ltd online they may give you some info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 A thought? Expedition companies will share expereince with you - orYou could contact Bellargio - and ask them for advice - they fit for Sultan of Brunei - but I am sure they might be a good soul and pass on any expereince - my opinion - so not that valuable- is that the matt would still with carpet hold moisture Someone will know - good luck - sounds great chrisp i should avoid bellargio, the mainstay of their business seemed to be selling ringers to the US. the greater crime though was a visual one though, chrome and cream leather nouveau riche chic...nice. they also did a sideline in threatening people on forums for pointing out that their '1969' td5 130 was probably not that legit. perhaps they thought ariel typeface would frighten people. I believe, unsurprisingly, that the company is now dissolved. to be of a bit more use, the thin insulation referred to above i think is this stuff... http://www.spacetherm.com/ about £12 a square metre i think and available at builder's merchants. you have to be careful with its installation to make the best of it though. as with many insulative matters, your greatest enemies are condensation and uncontrolled ventilation. so get sealing those gaps and be conscious of situations where interstitial condensation may appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Having owned a vehicle that someone had previously used contact adhesive to stick carpet to the inside of, I would say avoid that route, it makes a terrible mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I did what wunntenn did with my exmil 110HT. Also fit an Eberspacher or Webasto if you are going far north, you will not regret it. Defenders sold here have the 'Winter Pack' as standard which includes the heater and heated screen. The type of glue I used, tried contact adhesive but it was ****e, was PUbase like Sikaflex etc. I think I got it from Wurth. Came in tubes like silicone sealant. Smeared it on (messy) fitted up precut panels of foam covered in speaker carpet (used contact adhesive for that and it seemed to hold) and you could wiggle it into place. The other benefit was that it also acted as sound insulation and the cabin became quieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've just done the rear of my 110 Winterised hardtop. I used the 'camping matt' material which is blown polyethylene in this case from Kay Metzeler (a sister company of who I work for) to stick between the roof spars and the side panels. Its held in place with a spray adhesive called Vitabond (available from foam convertors)-which is stronger than the foam itself. Covering all this lot is some self adhesive automotive carpet (intended for Jaguar!) rescued from the baler/skip. I might be able to get some more carpet if anyones interested? My ex-mod has the 'squaddie' heating radiators in the rear that are fed off the engine cooling circuit controlled by a valve behind the drivers seat-these make a massive difference to internal temps. Its worth keeping an eye out on ebay-I've seen some there-but they are rare. With the recent snow-after driving around for awhile the snow has melted on the front drivers section with the standard rooflining and on the spar sections of the roof but is still present were the insulation is underneath. Makes a big difference to noise as well. Check thermostat ratings as well-my NAD is running the optional 80-odd degree one rather than the standard 70-odd one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've seen a couple of these on ebay lately - a batch must have fell off the back of a truck somewhere methinks... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LANDROVER-90-110-WOL...A1%7C240%3A1318 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantd5 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Cold contra heat will always produce condensation. Behind my truck I eliminated one of the carpets as water got in there from all connecting joints behind the truck. I used a stuff looking like coal-tar to seal all corners and let air circulate. I'd rather live with the noise than the rust. It's a noisy "Sand Rover" after all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Baldwin Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Try contacting Bradford Rubber Services http://www.bradfordrubber.co.uk/ A veritable goldmine of all things rubber related - NO that sort of rubber stuff! They stock neoprene sheet in all forms of thickness and density, open cell, closed cell and can supply you with it adhesive backed. Ask them to send you one of their sample sheets which gives you an idea of the stuff they have. FWIW. The 110s built for Ranulph Feinnes failed polar crossing had foil backed material lining the whole of the interior in the rear of the trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochie Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Have you thought about loft insulation, not the glass fibre type but the hi-tech layered space blanket type. Its very effective and thin, not particually expensive either.Whatever you do youll likely still get condensation because water naturally gathers on the coldest surface, if its not the roof, itll be the sides, or quite possibly the windows! I'd go with this kind of stuff. Should offer far better performance than foam etc. I would have thought that some form of vapour barrier / control layer would be just and important as the insulation (this hi-tech stuff acts as insulation and vapour barrier in 1 but tape the joints ). Without it, water vapour will still condense on any cold surfaces it can get at e.g. behind linings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 NOT that sort of rubber stuff! Awwww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weasel_110 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hi Chaps! I have tried to use the closed cell faom, but didn't have much luck with it, it fell off in about 12months, I think the problem was that, as it is closed cell, the glue won't penetrate to give a good bond! So I insulated my 110 Hard top with Thermal Bubble Wrap, it has an Aluminium foil on both sides, here are a few examples off Ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Campervan-Motorhome-...%3A1|240%3A1318 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50-SQM-THERMAWRAP-DO...%3A1|240%3A1318 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALUBUBBBLE-FOIL-INSU...%3A1|240%3A1318 It claims to give the equivalent insulation of 200mm of Rockwool! I thought that will do for me! So I bought two cans of Dunlop Trim spray adhesive and a roll long enough to do the roof and sides, the roll I got was 1.5 M wide. I must say, it was a POP to fit and I am really pleased with the result! I then recovered my headlining with this http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/p-1359-brush...headlining.aspx from Woolies Trim, and lined a couple of pieces of 5mm plywood with interior carpet for the sides. the result, I am sure mine is the last car in the car park to freeze over, and in the summer, it is not stinking hot inside! In fact, I am so made up with the stuff, I spent about £130 on a roll big enough to do the loft, again, really easy to do. just hang it in place with a staple gun! Heres a couple of pics.... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hi Chaps!I have tried to use the closed cell faom, but didn't have much luck with it, it fell off in about 12months, I think the problem was that, as it is closed cell, the glue won't penetrate to give a good bond! I've had closed cell foam on the roof for years. There are special spray adhesives that you can get. When used, the bond is stronger than the foam (I tested it). It has been so long, I can not remember what it was called. Possibly this stuff, http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_U..._Trim_Adhesive/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weasel_110 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've had closed cell foam on the roof for years. There are special spray adhesives that you can get. When used, the bond is stronger than the foam (I tested it).It has been so long, I can not remember what it was called. Possibly this stuff, http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_U..._Trim_Adhesive/ I may try that Red as some of the carpet is coming away now! Cheers Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I used the bubble wrap foil stuff on the series, insulation Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glue Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The last Landy I insulated was done with camping mats and copydex. It lasted for about 2 1/2 years, and I killed the Landy before I had any problems with it coming unstuck. Glue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazelle Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 For steel narrowboats the most effective way of insulating is using spray foam. This has the advantage of not providing a surface for condensation on the inside of the bodywork (particularly important with steel structures). A quick search using google came up with this self delivery kit - I have never used it and have absolutely no experience of using it. I don't know if this has been used in Landrovers, but it is still worth considering. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You could contact Bellargio - and ask them for advice - not anymore, just looked them up on companies house website, it says they were Dissolved, so no longer trading but their website is still active, which seems wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Also anyone know where I can purchase the lining material used in motorhomes? Answering this question, this company wholesale to caravan, mobile home and marine retailers and manufacturers. Not a lot on their site but the catalogue is about 2" thick, they have a whole range of panels and linings in the catalogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Personally, I would not use spray foam. It is difficult to get on thin and consistent. Plus with the vehicle flexing, it will crack and break up over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 The ali bubble wrap stuff is also called Airtec, Screwfix sell it the double version is pretty solid stuff. I did my shed out in it. Might use the left over stuff for the back of the 110. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The insulation will be a real boon in cold, but almost a waste of time in extreme heat, unless you fit aircon . The insulation will only delay the rise in internal temp slightly, esp if you want fresh air , as the air coming in can be so hot that its like having the heater blowing on you . For land rovers in very hot climate, make sure you insulate floor, and seatbox area as these can get to a level where they will almost burn you . The double skin tropical roof was always effective in hot climates , a fully boarded roof rack fulfills a similar function . HTSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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