Aragorn Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Lara, can you elaborate on why you found this? A few people have made similar claims on this thread, but havent said what they personally have found so amazing about it. If you're going to the effort (and expense) of a compushift and manually shifting it, why not just use a proper manual? Its not like operating a clutch pedal is a challenging operation? I should point out i'm not advocating one over another, as has been pointed out i've never driven an auto offroad (infact i've never driven any landrover properly offroad, the 90's in bits, and the disco i recently baught for offroading is awaiting a distributor) I'm just interested in peoples views. Fridges explanation/breakdown does seem to show theres negatives on both sides, but there arent all that many pluses on the autobox side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Lara, can you elaborate on why you found this?A few people have made similar claims on this thread, but havent said what they personally have found so amazing about it. If you're going to the effort (and expense) of a compushift and manually shifting it, why not just use a proper manual? Its not like operating a clutch pedal is a challenging operation? I should point out i'm not advocating one over another, as has been pointed out i've never driven an auto offroad (infact i've never driven any landrover properly offroad, the 90's in bits, and the disco i recently baught for offroading is awaiting a distributor) I'm just interested in peoples views. Fridges explanation/breakdown does seem to show theres negatives on both sides, but there arent all that many pluses on the autobox side... You could almost write a book on the difference between how they feel off road but there's no substitute for actually witnessing it. I'm not biased in the auto vs manual - my every day car is a Lotus Elise. I hugely prefer manuals on road as here they offer more control but, off road, it's the autos that, in my book, have the clear control advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 One benefit is that you then have the same number of feet as pedals. I find that I then brake with my left foot and can tickle the accelerator and ease the brake off/on to work over obstacles. If you have to use a clutch, it becomes more complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 If you're going to the effort (and expense) of a compushift and manually shifting it, why not just use a proper manual? Its not like operating a clutch pedal is a challenging operation? You have to remember that you will need the later EH variant of the ZF box to use Compushift. These boxes are in the P38 RR and the Disco2. Earlier boxes will need a manual valve body to achieve the same effect. However, "why not use a proper manual"? ....there is no break in drive when shifting an auto in the manner described. When shifting in a manual all the time that the clutch is pressed you are not 'driving'. This can be particularly telling on a hill climb. Ask any RTV/Trials driver and they will tell you not to use the clutch, select the right gear and drive the section. TBH I think a lot of challenge event drivers could learn a lot from doing a season of trials......but thats a whole different opinion/thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 For overlanding, I can understand the argument in favour of the manual box in term of simplicity. For challenging there is in my opinion no contest: Drive assist - you can control the wheel speed to match the winch because of the torque converter. Crossing obstacles - no clutch to set fire to as you gently increase the revs to overcome the obstacle. Stopping in a precise position - in an auto you jam your left foot on the brake and the truck stops. In a manual you have to go from throttle to brake and clutch. This takes a split second and the truck moves from where you want it to be. (Just ask Lard ) Hill climbs - stick it in "D" and go. No dithering over 1st or 2nd gear being the right one. Drivetrain - much much gentler on halfshafts than a manual. Hill descents - if things get out of shape in a manual, particularly a diseasel, you may not have enough revs to accelerate out of trouble. In an auto you can be doing 40mph if you floor it! On the down side, and the only down side for me is engine braking. But you do have a gert big brake pedal if you know how to use it... So, in a nutshell, it is auto for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLineMike Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Aragon since you are in livingston & not a million miles away from me you are more than welcome to have a drive of my tdi auto challenge 90, i have just recently converted to auto from a manual & have to say it is so much easier to drive & has so much more fine control than the manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Lara, can you elaborate on why you found this? No manual box could cope with his engine On a different note, The difficulty would come with one that is a daily driver... I'd want a full manual for the road, and Auto for off it. Compushift being part way there, but not the same as having a proper manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Whats so special about laras engine? Some special V8 with a big blower strapped on? I think getting a go in both as a comparison might be the sensible way to go, as has been suggested already. Some good points made, makes me wonder how suitability would change depending on what events the truck was competing in, i'm sure comp safari would have a different set of requirements to chugging around in the mud with winches for instance. Sooty, cheers for the offer, however the lack of transportation and the fact i'm moving to blackpool at the end of the month makes that much more difficult that it at first sounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Hi Aragorn, (cool name by the way, I love Lord of the Rings) Nothing too special about my engine other than an awful lot of torque very low down. But aside from that the Auto box does exactly what Bishbosh says, It just plain makes things so easy, especially accelerating up steep hills, You know, the ones where you couldn't possibly just crawl up due to lack of traction, need just the right amount of momentum but not a big enough run up to manage third in your manual and you know that if you managed it in 3rd you would need second by the time the speed was dragged off at the top, you can't use 2nd because you would need to pull 7000 revs, what do you do? Auto!! Engine breaking? Your tyres don't know what is slowing your wheels down! is it the engine or the brakes? it's whatever you do it with and it is all the same in real life! And you don't have the chance of stalling either, which is much more of a problem when stood on your nose vertically and in the middle of pooing your self!!!!!! Great on the road too, always shifts at the right time, just a little time needed to get used to it, that's all. Lara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 No manual box could cope with his engine On a different note, The difficulty would come with one that is a daily driver... I'd want a full manual for the road, and Auto for off it. Compushift being part way there, but not the same as having a proper manual. Simples - manual valve body and toque converter with a lock up clutch. That is effectively a sequential gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdicky Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Is there a 5 or 6 speed auto available these days that fits in place of the ZF 4 speed/LT77/R380? My TDi is slow enough as it is with a manual on the road, if I ever went auto then I'd need more gears to play with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 For challenging there is in my opinion no contest: Drive assist - you can control the wheel speed to match the winch because of the torque converter. Crossing obstacles - no clutch to set fire to as you gently increase the revs to overcome the obstacle. Stopping in a precise position - in an auto you jam your left foot on the brake and the truck stops. In a manual you have to go from throttle to brake and clutch. This takes a split second and the truck moves from where you want it to be. (Just ask Lard ) Hill climbs - stick it in "D" and go. No dithering over 1st or 2nd gear being the right one. Drivetrain - much much gentler on halfshafts than a manual. Hill descents - if things get out of shape in a manual, particularly a diseasel, you may not have enough revs to accelerate out of trouble. In an auto you can be doing 40mph if you floor it! On the down side, and the only down side for me is engine braking. But you do have a gert big brake pedal if you know how to use it... Couldnt of put it better myself , But then Bish is a clever sod . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtrans Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Is there a 5 or 6 speed auto available these days that fits in place of the ZF 4 speed/LT77/R380? in a word, no you don't need more unless you are trying to comply with Euro 5 emissions, our auto puma 90 is seamless, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 What about in a 300TDI that is used for normal work and is not just an off road toy? It would seem the mediocre power would make it carp to drive/tow a large trailer. behind a V8 or Td5 then may be Auto is the New black after the trayback of previous years, to turn my 90 into a tray back offroad only vehicle in need of IVA would leave me needing another Land Rover in order to tow a trailer and collect building materials. I think the good old R380 serves the TDI well, apart from the expensive of doing the job properly with a decent Recon box/compushift etc. Now on the Road I'm all for Auto both our other cars are Auto and I can't imagine buying a manual again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 i'm sure comp safari would have a different set of requirements to chugging around in the mud with winches for instance. Quite a number of comp safari cars use autos, some with manual shift, some without, depending on preference and budget. What about in a 300TDI that is used for normal work and is not just an off road toy?It would seem the mediocre power would make it carp to drive/tow a large trailer. Having towed with manual and auto tdi's 200 and 300 I have to say I prefer the auto for towing, with a heavy trailer the speed difference of the auto isn't noticable. However with out the trailer in tow I'd prefer a manual tdi on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general-confusion Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I would like to add another benefit of auto in a challenge truck and that is your £250 + winch ropes will last much longer , I am sure we have all seen the manual trucks lurch forward when coming off the clutch , the winch rope goes slack , the truck stops due to lack of traction and SNAP the winch rope gets a massive shock load as the winch catches up. I dont clean or swap round my winch ropes (yes I know I should) and my front rope has now done 9 competitions without snapping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 90 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 "Should I stay auto?" Yes, Recently changed to auto and its the best thing ive done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbarclay Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Like several people on here I like my auto off road. Along with all the points already mentioned, another thing I like about the auto box is the potential for point blank acceleration. I've been temporally way laid in a set of sunken section of some ruts before with about 2 foot at most movement in either direction. A friend in a similar speced bobtail with manual box ended up winch his way through. After a couple of failed attempts to drive out, I reversed back as far as it could get, held it on the brakes, slected forwards, applied throttle gradually up to about 2000rpm (still holding it on the brakes) and then dropped the brake and flawed the throttle at the same time. This resulted in the range rover lurching forwards and gaining enouth momentum to drive out. The auto ment that all the backlash in the transmission was taken up before accelerating. Without 3 feet this would very difficult to achive with a manual without crashing the gears. Its something I would prefere not to do, but occasionally it can be very effective when normally there wouldn't be a run up to get enough momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 No one has mentioned the weight saving of losing that extra pedal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exmoor Beast Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Living where I do and doing what I do an Auto would drive me absolutely bonkers in no time at all. Tried loads of them, owned a few, all been highly annoying. Its purely personal preference but I like to decide which gear to use and not leave the choice to some mechanical black art I simply have no comprehension of. Not a productive comment but Auto/Manual is one of those things that you just have to comment on Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I would like to add another benefit of auto in a challenge truck and that is your £250 + winch ropes will last much longer , I am sure we have all seen the manual trucks lurch forward when coming off the clutch , the winch rope goes slack , the truck stops due to lack of traction and SNAP the winch rope gets a massive shock load as the winch catches up. I dont clean or swap round my winch ropes (yes I know I should) and my front rope has now done 9 competitions without snapping thats exactly the reason i converted to auto steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 i sometimes wish i had an auto in my 90 - but only for on the road driving into work. that last couple of miles is usually stop start traffic and i get bored of pushing the clutch up and down all the time! But in every other on road situation i prefer my manual. In all the auto vehicles i have driven, i always feel very remote from whats going on and it is disconcerting. Had a go in the father outlaws new audi and it was exceptionally smooth. Didnt like it though, as again i feel removed from the driving and even using the tiptronic wotsit - still felt a bit numb. Having never driven an auto offroad, i cant comment. but personally i like selecting my gears and dont envision my opinion on that ever changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I drove an Auto for the first time last sunday... As far as i can tell there is the same engine braking as in a manual - but not if you leave it in 'D'. That was the only thing i was unsure about with having an auto. I'm officially a convert!! although i do enjoy a manual on the road, a 90 for me would be for off-road, and put up with the auto on-road. Holding it on the brake sounds good too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderkatt Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I was one of those people , I hate driving auto cars /HGV`s on the road , But I wouldnt change the auto option in my 90 Nothing wrong with my Volvo I-shift. I love it to bits. I wonder how good an Audi/VW DSG box would be in a Landie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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