Motorway Cops on telly last night

[Boothy]

To open an old arguement did anyone see "Motorway Cops" on tv last night ????

A motorway police officer PC Angus Nairn from around the Worcester area clocks a 90 pulling a tri-axle Ifor Williams trailer with a newish damaged Range Rover on it and stops him, originally for not having an ID plate on his trailer, but it wasn't reported stolen in the end, so copper with a nose carries on digging.

What he was enquiring about is if he was a commercial (i.e. a business/garage etc) or private /hobby , because if he is employed or doing it for money then he would have to produce a valid tachograph because he was obviously over 3.5 tons, bit bright this copper.

First time I've ever seen one that was offay with what was going on, the guy driving was in the sh**e for only having a provisional driving licence in the end and obstruction for continuosly giving false names and addresses.

Bit of food for thought there.

Boothy.......Hobbist

[Dave W]

I was surprised the guy driving didn't know enough to say he was just shifting the motor for a friend as a favour, he obviously wasn't aware of the tacho thing. If i was pulled towing a motor I'd make it absolutely clear from the start that it was purely a private/hobby thing.

On the other hand as it turned out he wasn't aware of the requirement to pass a driving test either so I guess the nuances of commercial towing law were a bit low on his radar

[garymorris]

Yes I saw it as well , the 90 looked very smart , regarding towing a trailer for commercial use ,I thought you were alright if you were transporting your own goods

There must be hundreds/thousands of vans/4x4's etc towing everyday without a tacho

[nicksmelly]

If you had seen earlier episodes you would have known the Police man was a lorry driver in a previous life, and has a bit of a thing for tachographs.

[landroversforever]

Is that the episode with the yellow 90?

[Adam001]

tachograph?

ah wiki has the answer... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachograph

odd, why are they needed?

[landroversforever]

They log speeds and rest periods for commercial drivers.

[Night Train]

I guess the other issue would be that insuarance would be invalid too if the driver was done for commercial towing if the insurance cover isn't for commercial or motor trade.

[Chris Rogers]

tachograph?

ah wiki has the answer... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachograph

odd, why are they needed?

Tachographs are required for any vehicle over 3.5T that are being used commercially. Eg a 3.5T transit towing a trailer needs to have a tacho fitted.

There are a few exemptions such as emergency services.

Another reason why I can't understand why landrover do not offer Tachographs as a factory fitted option.

[David Sparkes]

...

Another reason why I can't understand why Land Rover do not offer Tachographs as a factory fitted option.

Perhaps, he says cynically, because Land Rover have a better understanding of the vehicle limitations than some Customers, and LR would not wish to encourage people to consider their vehicle suitable for towing heavy loads on a regular commercial basis.

:-)

I must say I found the Motorway Cops programme amusing on nearly every count.

The big exception being the 'runaway' artic prime mover, but then that was impressive because of the actions of the one guy who didn't get a big mention, the cop standing in the road with the stinger. It was brave just standing there, but he had to move pretty quick to change sides when the cab moved to avoid him. Ultimately he was successful, because it was the stinger that stopped the cab.

Anyone else think the cab driver suffered a little GBH (Gentle Bodily Harm) when they finally cuffed him?

That's not me being critical, just 'observational'.

The Londoner belittling Brummies, to two Brummie cops, was just too hilarious for words.

The Romanians with their 'Blue Peter' DIY Credit Card kit was 'silly', but someone is making enough money to finance them travelling to the UK, so it's a serious problem, together with the fact that three out of four (IIRC) never appeared in court.

Difficult to suggest effective solutions without leaving oneself open to a charge of racism, but 'something needs to be done', if I can refer to a famous phrase.

Regards.

[gruntus]

Just in terms of being up to speed with towing weights etc I was informed recently that the police have actually got pretty clued up.

Personally I didnt really give it a great deal of thought (I have only ever towed a small trailer with Cement mixers etc and towed cars with an A frame a few times) but when you consider the potential destuction and carnage that would result from an accident involving a large towed weight by being unsafe it is quite frightening.

I only took an interest recently as I will be towing a disco for offroad use and wanted to do it safely.

I was advised to know all the information in terms of weight of the trailer, the weight of the vehicle being towed and the combined weight of both and if the vehicle towing was capable.

As mentioned the police are very clued up now in what questions to ask and being ignorant of the facts (and being over the limits) are more likely to result in a prosecution rather than a warning.

Just my thoughts on doing it safely.

Cheers

G

[BoatBuoy]

I do wonder where this puts utility companies or folks like the Environment Agency. What is the definition of "Goods" and say you two a box van 100 miles from base for work, but it just contains tools, I wonder if it required a tacho since the combined weight is 6100kg. One for the fleet manager to investigate I think if he hasn't already.

[Boothy]

We had a problem on a large Rail operating company I work for with the onset of Tacho's because we had cable trailers etc andused tomove stuff around with big vans etc, the 3.5 ton came in and hey ho its tacho time, nobody wanted todrive one anymore because it affected the rest day working,numbers of shifts and hours etc and was very limiting to trying to make a living working when driving just a means to get there and back (to site), especially when on call, because once you had tacho'd once we were told that the rest of the week had to be logged and recorded minute by minute as well, stuff that was the answer.

The AA etc soon got rid of there Disco's and trailers when it came in and went for lightweight vans with spec frames, after that it went to heavy'ish recovery vehicles.

I know a few councils also had big problems with Transits and lawnmower/plant trailers etc, I know its difficult for them to send a man to do a job and expect to work all day as well when the tacho wants rest periods out of him.

The 90 on the programme was a blue one and very tidy.

[missingsid]

So how does a Tacho know the difference between cutting grass and sleeping under a tree?

In my previous employment the drivers that went abroad stopped using the Tacho after the ferry, and started again once back in UK.

Marc.

[madmatt]

I do wonder where this puts utility companies or folks like the Environment Agency. What is the definition of "Goods" and say you two a box van 100 miles from base for work, but it just contains tools, I wonder if it required a tacho since the combined weight is 6100kg. One for the fleet manager to investigate I think if he hasn't already.

I think you'll find the guy at fleet ops in your neck of the woods will know all about this!! Its been covered to death within the agency. The land rovers are fine as they don't tow anything in return for financial rewards. I'm a HGV Cat C driver with the agency and we are Tacho exempt I can't remember which exemption it is but there is one that covers water companys and also members of the local authority that work to prevent emergencys like flooding. We are Tacho exempt but as HGV drivers we have to use log books to log driving ours when dring a HGV on agency business, and drivers hrs are a big issue all the HGV drivers have recently had to sign declarations to say if they had a digi tach card and wether they drove for any firms on days off as the agency would want copy@s of hrs records.

[BoatBuoy]

But if you are carrying a lawnmower does that count as goods?

[Ryan]

I used to work with Angus (PC Nairn), and what he doesn't know about HGVs isn't worth knowing. If I remember correctly, he was also a transport manager. Any time we had a problem with a lorry or lorry driver, he was the person to call. Then we lost him to CMPG...but he always hung around Worcester. One of the nicest blokes you could want to meet.

[western]

But if you are carrying a lawnmower does that count as goods?

no, cos it's NOT FOR SALE, only for use by the operator & nothing is sold [hire/reward]

[western]

I used to work with Angus (PC Nairn), and what he doesn't know about HGVs isn't worth knowing. If I remember correctly, he was also a transport manager. Any time we had a problem with a lorry or lorry driver, he was the person to call. Then we lost him to CMPG...but he always hung around Worcester. One of the nicest blokes you could want to meet.

he certainly gave the lad in the 90 plenty of opportunity to give his correct details & avoid a trip to the police station.

[Phil Hancock]

The company i work for, British waterways is Tacho exempt, probably for similar reasons as the utility companies as we manage canals and rivers both of which can and do flood. British Railways was also TE but with the break up(privatisation) into operating companies and the renaming of the P-Way departments into Railtrack it seems that the exemption has been lost for them.

[BoatBuoy]

The company i work for, British waterways is Tacho exempt, probably for similar reasons as the utility companies as we manage canals and rivers both of which can and do flood. British Railways was also TE but with the break up(privatisation) into operating companies and the renaming of the P-Way departments into Railtrack it seems that the exemption has been lost for them.

But looking at the list of exemptions, there was not an obvious category for the Environment Agency on routine business. I know that it said flood work was exempt, but we do do other stuff too.

[madmatt]

But looking at the list of exemptions, there was not an obvious category for the Environment Agency on routine business. I know that it said flood work was exempt, but we do do other stuff too.

Yes but working for the agency how often do you actually carry out a job with a trailer that is actually for hire or reward?! do you work in OPS Delivery? we don't get paid to move stuff from A to B we arn't selling the rubbish we drag out of rivers. If you have anything to do with fleet ops in the agency they'll tell you its been discusssed at the highest level. just because some copper mentioned it on the telly the other night, doesn't alter the fact that the legislation is 13 years old. Pretty much anything Ops Delivery do is working towards flood eleveation. I don't know how the legislation affects fisheries or hydrometrics though>

[zoltan]

What is the drive/rest period routine with a tacho as it would apply to a LR towing commercially?

Edit:

Not a particularly simple answer

www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/workingtime/drivershoursgoods.pdf

[Paul Humphreys]

Yes I saw it as well , the 90 looked very smart , regarding towing a trailer for commercial use ,I thought you were alright if you were transporting your own goods

There must be hundreds/thousands of vans/4x4's etc towing everyday without a tacho

One passed me on the M54 friday morning, towing a trailer with big gates on doing about 80mph

Paul

[DefcoL]

Well someone has to ask; so I will.

Going to a "car boot" sale with a trailer, say with an engine, axles, doors, hubs and various other weighty bits of metal in order to get some extra pocket money. Total weight of your LR + trailer + parts = 3.5t or more. Seems that you (by law) must have a taco.

What should the LR community do to stay within the law?

if they have to get a taco, where and what are the costs? What is the up keep? What are the insurance implications? What are the MOT implications?

For Car booting it may be better to get a Van, OR is it?

When dose it cease to be a hobby and become a business? I.E. Trade shows.

For me there is no question, but for many others it seems a vital question.